"Sold the False Story"

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by kastenbrust, May 7, 2009.

  1. kastenbrust macrumors 68030

    kastenbrust

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2008
    Location:
    North Korea
    #1
    I came across this article today from the BBC:
    I think its so true, whats the point bailing out the banks if the human race is going to suffer much worse because of global warming? From a utilitarian ethical point on view we actually dont deserve to survive global warming as a race if what this article says is true.
     
  2. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2004
    Location:
    Chicago, Illinois
    #2
    The bailouts were never good. I stand by that. It's not a conservative vs liberal thing. It's reality. Passing this on to our kids is the worst mistake we could ever make.
     
  3. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2003
    Location:
    Colly-fornia
    #3
    Yeah, it's always amazing how we can somehow find a trillion dollars for an unnecessary war, or another trillion dollars to bail out the rich white guys at the banks, but spending $10 billion on alternative fuel research is impossible.
     
  4. kdum8 macrumors 6502a

    kdum8

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2006
    Location:
    Tokyo, Japan
    #4
    To be fair, whether the bailouts were a good idea or not I personally have no idea. I have a basic first year college undergraduate understanding of economics and that would seem to suggest something was necessary but frankly I couldn't call it either way based on my knowledge base. And frankly neither do the vast majority of the people who opine on this subject either.

    One hears so much outrage on this and other subjects coming from people who have no idea what they are talking about....
     
  5. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    Dec 22, 2004
    Location:
    Chicago, Illinois
    #5
    Yeah. Strange, isn't it? :mad:
     
  6. takao macrumors 68040

    takao

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2003
    Location:
    Dornbirn (Austria)
    #6
    hey 10 billion is one thing .. in Austria they just decided they would drop out of CERN because our 20 million share "is too much and better used on other yet not named austrian projects, where the visibility is higher" ... mind you after 50 years of paying and just months before the LHC finally will produce results

    on the other side saving the _private_ constantia bank with 450 million was not even worth some discussion and the inheritance tax was abolished with it's 150 million of tax money as "insignificant" just like the discussed the tax increase for the highest income levels which would have generated around 100 million

    it's a disgrace...
     
  7. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    Feb 2, 2009
    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario
    #7
    I really don't like how the bailout was handled at all. That being said it was a lot better thing to spend money on then something we will look back and laugh at in 20 years (global warming).
     
  8. takao macrumors 68040

    takao

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2003
    Location:
    Dornbirn (Austria)
    #8
    as long as we don't hear in 20-30 years stuff like "why did nobody tell that we have to do something ?", "why didn't the scientists warn us ?" from politicians

    i _hope_ we can laugh about it in 20 years
     
  9. solvs macrumors 603

    solvs

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2002
    Location:
    LaLaLand, CA
    #9
    I'm guessing you guys let this go because you just didn't feel like having another Global Climate Change debate, but dude, there is no debate about it's existence. It's happening. Seriously, it just is. Maybe you don't understand the data, but for those of us who do, it's amazing people are even having this discussion, and that you can even try to say such a thing, especially without anything to back it up. The debate that is left is over how much humans have caused, and made worse. And what, if anything, we can do about it at this point. There are still people saying it isn't happening at all, but the vast majority of scientists and their scientific research show it is, and humans at the very least contributed to it. The few of you left saying it isn't and/or we didn't usually tend to have the agendas, or are listening to those who do. Unlike "Global Cooling", which was not a scientific consensus, though it is more than just Global "Warming" if that's where you're going.

    If you'd like to have a debate about this, go read the data and the results, get back to me, and we'll have an honest, legitimate debate.

    And to get to your other point, it's the same issue. Maybe if we didn't have things like Glass Steagall, aka the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act, we wouldn't have gotten into this financial mess in the first place, and worse HAD to bail out these crooks because such deregulation helped get them to where they are, that whole too big to fail thing. But while people were out there warning that such acts could make things, well, pretty much as bad as what is happening now, people like you were mocking them and saying they were just chicken littles predicting doom and gloom. Welcome to a few years later, and we're seeing it all unfurl before us, just as they warned. We're already seeing the effects of the Global Climate Change you say aren't happening now, and it's only going to get worse from here.

    More on the who saw the financial crisis coming if anyone is interested:

    Glass-Steagall Act: The Senators And Economists Who Got It Right


    I honestly don't mean to be so condescending, but I simply can't believe we are still having these discussions.
     
  10. solvs macrumors 603

    solvs

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    Jun 25, 2002
    Location:
    LaLaLand, CA
    #10
    I guess I shouldn't hold my breath for a response, and as usual, will simply expect the same inaccurate arguments in the future, to be refuted futiley.
     
  11. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    Feb 2, 2009
    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario
    #11
    Its not global warming anymore, its climate change. I was referring to "human caused" global warming, we make up a small percentage of a minority gas that makes up the greenhouse gases. If its a natural warming cycle there isn't anything we will be able to do to stop it.

    As far as I know we have dropped to a 200 year global temp average last year. The earth has had climate cycles since the beginning of its existence, considered me unimpressed.
     
  12. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2004
    Location:
    Chicago, Illinois
    #12
    So your answer is that we should just keep doing what we're doing and accelerate the process? And please- provide proof of your claims.
     
  13. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2009
    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario
    #13
    We will become more efficient in the future no matter what. Prices will dictate that we do this or we would have resource shortages (something we have also worried about for decades, but has never came to light because of our advancement).

    This is pretty much common knowledge, but here we go:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenhouse_gases

    " * water vapor, which contributes 36–72%
    * carbon dioxide, which contributes 9–26%
    * methane, which contributes 4–9%
    * ozone, which contributes 3–7%
    "

    So of that 9-26% we humans obviously can not make up the whole pie as the land and oceans both emit CO2. Some studies I have seen pegs us at 3.22%, I say 5% as a safe guesstimate. Keep in mind that is a percentage of a percentage of greenhouse gases. I can't find the original study I read a few years back though, and the internet is littered with crap for both sides at this point.

    The problem is that money is being used to get the results that make more money. No crisis, no money.
     
  14. solvs macrumors 603

    solvs

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2002
    Location:
    LaLaLand, CA
    #14
    That's what I said, and even a small change, as you are purporting we are making, is devastating to the environment.

    That's a cop out answer and you know it.
     

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