Some on Mueller’s Team Say Report Was More Damaging Than Barr Revealed

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by eatrains, Apr 4, 2019.

  1. NT1440 macrumors G5

    NT1440

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    #76
    Well the thing about that is that he DID directly collude with Israel before taking office...but nobody cares because it's Israel...
     
  2. Dmunjal macrumors 65816

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    #77
    This happens all the time in every country. Trump did this in NY all the time to "grease the skids."

    Even in my local city, it is not unusual for real estate developers to "meet" with city officials to streamline the approval process.

    Hardly an impeachable offense.
     
  3. Peace macrumors Core

    Peace

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    #78
    So you're ok with Biden then ? Right ?
     
  4. RichardMZhlubb Contributor

    RichardMZhlubb

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    #79
    They investigated the alleged collusion with Russia because Russian government operatives committed dozens of crimes to benefit Trump. Even Barr acknowledges that. And we know that over a dozen Trump advisors reached out to make contracts with Russian government representatives, and that multiple senior Trump advisors were so concerned about covering up those contacts that they committed federal crimes by lying to investigators about them. It is nonsense to claim that there was nothing worth investigating in the Trump/Russia connections and interactions.

    And asking whether the Russian attempts to subvert the election to help Trump were decisive in his victory is not a relevant question. The crimes committed and Trump’s culpability associated with those crimes are the same whether Trump won or lost. We do not judge Nixon’s culpability for Watergate based on the effect the break in of the DNC headquarters had on the 1972 election.
    --- Post Merged, Apr 4, 2019 ---
    Uh, if those real estate developers then commit dozens of felonies to benefit those same city officials and the city officials cover it up, it most certainly is grounds to remove those city officials from office.
     
  5. Dmunjal macrumors 65816

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    #80
    How do you know that the same Russian politicians that approve real estate developments are the same individuals that attempted to subvert the election?

    Are all Russian politicians part of one entity?

    Real estate corruption is a rampant problem across the world but again, not an impeachable offense.
     
  6. RichardMZhlubb Contributor

    RichardMZhlubb

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    #81
    Are you kidding?
     
  7. jkcerda macrumors 6502a

    jkcerda

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    #82
    well, if you are implying all Russians are the same then they bribed Hillary as well........
     
  8. Dmunjal macrumors 65816

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    #83
    No, I'm not. If Trump bribes a Democrat NY politician to get a real estate development approved, does it automatically mean they are connected to a current US President who is involved in election interference or regime change in Iraq?

    Russia is a big country you know. Putin doesn't approve or have visibility of every business transaction in his country.
     
  9. LordVic macrumors 603

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    #84
    love this part:
    and also love Barr's own words walking back some of his own summaries "finalness"
    http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-...s-new-questions-unusual-and-unexpected-letter


    Now, I would hope everyone's interests are at least peaked by whats in the report by now.
     
  10. RichardMZhlubb Contributor

    RichardMZhlubb

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    #85
    Then, you probably should read the Mueller sentencing memoranda on Cohen. Cohen made numerous direct contacts with a senior Putin aid and tried to get Putin’s help on the Trump Moscow deal.
     
  11. Huntn macrumors P6

    Huntn

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    #86
    Don’t hurt yourself. :)
     
  12. NT1440 macrumors G5

    NT1440

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    #87
    Don’t bother, your average American has a cartoonish understanding of Russia where Putin is some sort of god king instead of having to deal with the intricacies of running a nation while having to make sure his country’s oligarchs are happy enough to not kill or remove the guy. You know, the way it works pretty much everywhere else in the world given the global nature of corruption at the core of this economic model?

    Everyone answers solely to Putin, he’s the world richest man, Putin is responsible for every single comment on social media pointing out the real problems of America or its “good” party (Democrats), blah blah more cartoonish narratives peddled by elementary school level “news” reporting.
     
  13. Dmunjal macrumors 65816

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    #89
    All of those descriptions are correct.

    But you can't make the jump from a real estate developer bribing a local politician to collusion with the Russian president without some proof.

    It's obvious Putin didn't like Clinton and would help her opponent (any opponent) get elected

    There was more evidence ($$) with the sale of uranium and the Clinton Foundation. But even I wouldn't call that collusion. Just corruption.

    Trump is corrupt but no more and probably less than any other politician in office today.
     
  14. RichardMZhlubb Contributor

    RichardMZhlubb

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    #90
    Except, in this case, we know that Trump’s people were reaching out for help from Putin himself and, no matter how complex the power dynamic in Russia, it is incredibly unlikely that Russian government operatives would have orchestrated and implemented their attacks on the election without Putin’s blessing. Does he control everything in Russia? No, but he pretty clearly was on both ends of the Russian government’s interactions with Trump during the campaign.
     
  15. Dmunjal macrumors 65816

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    #91
    Ok, I'll accept this. Putin definitely didn't like Hillary and wanted her to lose. Enough that he would help her opponent, any opponent win. But that still doesn't mean Trump knew what was going on or was involved.

    Also, from what I've read, the amount of money involved in this deception was minuscule. You're giving Putin too much credit.

    Trump couldn't even get more votes than Romney in many swing states. He won those states because Hillary received a lot less votes than Obama did.
     
  16. RichardMZhlubb Contributor

    RichardMZhlubb

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    #92
    I’ll just repeat what I said earlier. Hillary’s performance is totally irrelevant to this issue. Looking at the effect of the Russian criminal interference and asking whether Trump would have won without their help misses the point. Nixon was a lock to win in 1972 and the break in at the Watergate had no impact on the election results. That fact doesn’t provide any defense against his culpability for his involvement in Watergate. The same is true here. Trump’s involvement with the Russians and his attempt to cover up their crimes is impeachable, no matter what impact their crimes had on the election results.
     
  17. jerwin macrumors 68020

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    #93
    It sounds as if you believe that the very concept of political corruption is overblown. Shall we embrace it?

    Screen Shot 199.png

    (John Steinbeck, Log from the Sea of Cortez)
     
  18. Dmunjal macrumors 65816

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    #94
    Hardly. We're talking about impeachment of a sitting president. That's a high bar.
     
  19. ouimetnick macrumors 68020

    ouimetnick

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    #95
    Not sure if you believe the b.s you say, but Barr and Mueller are closer than Comey & Mueller, but whatever fits your agenda I guess.
     
  20. jerwin macrumors 68020

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    #96
    5 CFR 2635.702 is entitled "Use of public Office for Private Gain."

    That's a pretty good working definition for corruption-- a generality from which specifics can be deduced.

    The office of the president enjoys enormous unchecked power. The intended subject of those regulations, an employee of the federal government, has limited powers, most of which can be checked by supervisors, statutory authority, inspectors general, even congress.

    Give the benefit of doubt to a lowly clerk-- the losses are comprehensible.
    Give the benefit of the doubt to a president-- the consequences would be catastrophic.
     
  21. Dmunjal macrumors 65816

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    #97
    By that measure, every president has violated this law and should have been impeached.

    Do you think Obama and Clinton made hundreds of millions from book sales?
     
  22. raqball macrumors 68000

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    #98
    Please post a legit source to back this claim up. thanks!

    I know they are all cozy but your statement is unprovable. So per forum rules, source please..
     
  23. LordVic macrumors 603

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    #99
    While in office?
     
  24. Dmunjal macrumors 65816

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    #100

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