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MacRumors

macrumors bot
Original poster
Apr 12, 2001
52,503
14,204
Sony announced that they would no longer be releasing new Clie models in the U.S. market.

The consumer electronics giant said it will continue product development and sales in Japan but that its efforts in the United States will end when it sells existing supplies of four Clie models.

Sony will reportedly continue sales in Japan at this time. Analysts suspect that the Clie division was a "money-losing business".

Rumors and speculation have long called for Apple to renter the PDA market, but with few recent leads on this popular topic.
 

Swinny

macrumors regular
Jul 12, 2002
109
0
Oxford, UK
Proof perhaps thats Jobs has been right all along that PDAs are a dying market...The closest I suspect Apple will get to releasing a PDA again is adding some basic data-entry capablilities to future iPods (and/or Bluetooth for direct linking with phones).
 
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wrldwzrd89

macrumors G5
Jun 6, 2003
12,109
76
Solon, OH
Swinny said:
Proof perhaps thats Jobs has been right all along that PDAs are a dying market...The closest I suspect Apple will get to releasing a PDA again is adding some basic data-entry capablilities to future iPods (and/or Bluetooth for direct linking with phones).
I agree - PDAs do seem to be dying out. The iPod has all the basic features needed for a simple PDA - it just lacks data entry (which could be implemented with the current interface, and would be easy to use). I envision the iPod in data-entry mode - the buttons are used to select things, and the scroll wheel is used to select a letter.
 
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johnnyjibbs

macrumors 68030
Sep 18, 2003
2,959
119
London, UK
Yep, PDA's were always expensive and relatively pointless in my book. Still, if I had the money... I'm a bit of a gadget freak! I don't think Apple will enter that market.
 
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hob

macrumors 68010
Oct 4, 2003
2,004
0
London, UK
I really wish Apple would at least offer an upgrade for the iPod to allow data entry. My T630's Address Book is up to scratch, but the calender is atrocious! (so, seemingly is my spelling :p)

Hob
 
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nagromme

macrumors G5
May 2, 2002
12,546
1,196
Mediocre input: still good for iPod, just don't over-hype it

Truly GOOD input can't be done on the current iPods. Such a feature should never be hyped by Apple as anything major. Input with a wheel would not be Apple ease-of-use.

BUT... ANY kind of input is an important step, and useful because for many people, input is a much rarer need than output. Example: I look up addresses FAR more than I create new ones. (That's why it often works OK to have to use your computer--with full keys and screen--to do the entry.)

Simply adding SOME kind of input, however much it may be a compromise, would be a GREAT thing for some users--like me!

But it has to be fast--if someone tells me a phone number or meeting time, I can't be messing with scrolling through the alphabet one char at a time. At the same time, though, the simple current controls should stay that way: the iPod is for music first and foremost.

Solution? VOICE MEMOS! That's the easiest possible form of input--easier and faster than keyboard or stylus even. And it doesn't change the iPod's simplicity--IF they build it in rather than requiring an add-on pod. Please!

There's always a compromise--in the case of voice memos, you must re-enter the data on your computer when you get home. But that's a good trade for instant, dead-simple input on the spot--versus no input or slow and tedious input. (Or vs. an expensive stylus screen--not a bad BTO option though.)
 
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wrldwzrd89

macrumors G5
Jun 6, 2003
12,109
76
Solon, OH
hob said:
I really wish Apple would at least offer an upgrade for the iPod to allow data entry. My T630's Address Book is up to scratch, but the calender is atrocious! (so, seemingly is my spelling :p)

Hob
As I mentioned previously, no hardware changes would be needed to implement this - just an iPod software upgrade. I just submitted feedback to Apple regarding this - if you want to send something too, click here for Apple's feedback page, then click iPod, then enter and submit your feedback. Note: the feedback form is out of date - it doesn't include 10.3.3 or 10.3.4 as choices for Mac OS version.
 
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backspinner

macrumors 6502a
Apr 29, 2002
548
0
Eindhoven
nagromme said:
Truly GOOD input can't be done on the current iPods...
I use the few keys on my mobile phone all the time and that works also. I use the scroll wheel method all the time on some professional electronic equipment and that also works very well. It's not really fast but for me it's a working solution. Imagine that you are far away from your computer and want to input some text and have plenty of time -- the scroll wheel would be enough.
 
Comment

iMan

macrumors regular
Jan 7, 2004
197
0
Oslo, Norway
nagromme said:
Solution? VOICE MEMOS! That's the easiest possible form of input--easier and faster than keyboard or stylus even. And it doesn't change the iPod's simplicity--IF they build it in rather than requiring an add-on pod. Please!

And the interesting thing is voice recognition software - that automatically changes the recorded voice to an entry... this is not too far off I believe. I know that this is currently beeing tested for doctors journaling - like they just speak the diagnosis, and the system converts it to a written report (you all know how doctors write don't you :) )

THAT would be a killer!
 
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HasanDaddy

macrumors 6502a
Jul 16, 2002
582
0
Los Angeles
does this mean that Apple is releasing a PDA??

SmartPhones are where its at

I'm sure Sony will start revving up its work on the P900, now that they don't have to worry about the Clie market
 
Comment

howard

macrumors 68020
Nov 18, 2002
2,017
2
this is frustrating,

i've always wanted a pda type device. but none seem to work the way i want them to, so close... i was hoping apple would make one that would actually work the way its supposed to but this seems to show that it may be a dieing market, unfortunately for me.

doesn't it seem like they should be extremely useful if made correctly?
 
Comment

0 and A ai

macrumors regular
Jan 12, 2004
171
0
iMan said:
And the interesting thing is voice recognition software - that automatically changes the recorded voice to an entry... this is not too far off I believe. I know that this is currently beeing tested for doctors journaling - like they just speak the diagnosis, and the system converts it to a written report (you all know how doctors write don't you :) )

THAT would be a killer!

Processing power says no
 
Comment

BrianKonarsMac

macrumors 65816
Apr 28, 2004
1,102
83
the reason the clie's didn't sell well (IMO) are because they are so restrictive. you have to use Sony formatted files, otherwise it doesn't work, and you need to submit to their DRM which is quite restrictive.
 
Comment

howard

macrumors 68020
Nov 18, 2002
2,017
2
i think they are going about them all wrong, pda's need to simplify. they don't need digital camera's they don't even need gobs of memory to put music or videos on. they should replace the memo pad, in which what they do need is good screens, good text recognition. good organized contact and memo and draw functions.

all that other crap i doubt people use all the much and drives up the cost, and if they do sell...well theres always the more expensive ones...but don't sacrafice key software that you need on the entry level ones
 
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365

macrumors member
Aug 10, 2002
66
0
The Blackberry ( http://www.blackberry.com ) is the ideal device for me but something a little more sleek. It's a mobile phone / pda but for me the most important thing is that it 'pushes' email to you while you're on the move and for an email junkie this is Nirvana.

Yes I think the PDA as we know it is coming to an end or should I say evolving into a mobile commucication device ( a cell phone ).
 
Comment

Torajima

macrumors regular
Jan 6, 2004
241
0
USA
wrldwzrd89 said:
I agree - PDAs do seem to be dying out. The iPod has all the basic features needed for a simple PDA

<snip>

Oh please.... PDAs are NOT dying out. Half the people at my company use them, and more are buying them every day.

I'm glad the iPod has an address book and can store simple notes, but it will never replace my Palm... even if Apple added input capability.

Most people don't seem to realize just how powerful (and how useful) PDAs are these days. My Palm has a faster processor than my G3 tower. It's no longer a simple address book and daily planner... it is my handheld "laptop replacement". With the exception of video editing and serious graphic work, I can do most anything on my Palm that you can do on a laptop.

Some things I use my Palm for:

1. Read, and more importantly, create word and excel documents.
2. Read other doc files, including plain text, html, pdf, and palmdoc.
3. Surf the web and check my email.
4. As a calculator, both for simple math and to calculate mortgages, sales tax, tips, and even for currency exchange.
5. View the weather forecast for every major city in the world.
6. Check the tides for every coastal town in North America.
7. To handle all my finances.
8. To create and store databases.
9. To store maps of my entire state.
10. To view family photos.
11. To play games
12. And of course, to store addresses and to plan my daily schedule.

You can also play videos, use it as a simple midi scratchpad, connect it to a GPS, etc.

The point is, the iPod won't be replacing the PDA anytime soon. And I'm sad to see Sony go... they added some much needed innovation to the market. I suspect someone is going to make a killing importing Clie's from Japan now...
 
Comment

cb911

macrumors 601
Mar 12, 2002
4,123
3
BrisVegas, Australia
wow. that's a surprise to see that they're shutting down the Clie, and they just released that new model not so long ago...

oh well, when you've got a 10" sub-notebook who needs a PDA? :D
 
Comment

rosalindavenue

macrumors 6502a
Dec 13, 2003
848
266
Virginia, USA
I have a 2 year old CLIE PEGT615-C. At the time, it was the best Palm-OS PDA going-- high res color screen, scroll wheel. It still works great, gets great battery life, and I hope to use it for 2-3 more years. (I'm a lawyer and I keep my work calendar, addresses, notes, and sometimes word docs and other stuff on it.) I think that Sony has (correctly) seen that the stand-alone PDA is a dead end, because mobile devices are converging at a rapid pace. My next PDA will probably be part of my mobile phone. I suspect that this PDA/Phone will also have an MP3 player and internet access. I hope that Apple won't keep their head in the sand as these devices converge. This year, when I get on a plane, I have to empty my pockets of a phone, a PDA, an ipod, and sometimes an audible otis (IMO ipods dont handle audiobooks well enough yet). And this is traveling "light," without a laptop. I think that one device will cover all of these bases (including the laptop) in three years, tops (look at the cover story of this week's newsweek. Apple, which makes the best laptops and the best mp3 players, and which invented the PDA, had better get in on the convergence ASAP.
 
Comment

wrldwzrd89

macrumors G5
Jun 6, 2003
12,109
76
Solon, OH
Torajima said:
<snip>

Oh please.... PDAs are NOT dying out. Half the people at my company use them, and more are buying them every day.

I'm glad the iPod has an address book and can store simple notes, but it will never replace my Palm... even if Apple added input capability.

Most people don't seem to realize just how powerful (and how useful) PDAs are these days. My Palm has a faster processor than my G3 tower. It's no longer a simple address book and daily planner... it is my handheld "laptop replacement". With the exception of video editing and serious graphic work, I can do most anything on my Palm that you can do on a laptop.

Some things I use my Palm for:

1. Read, and more importantly, create word and excel documents.
2. Read other doc files, including plain text, html, pdf, and palmdoc.
3. Surf the web and check my email.
4. As a calculator, both for simple math and to calculate mortgages, sales tax, tips, and even for currency exchange.
5. View the weather forecast for every major city in the world.
6. Check the tides for every coastal town in North America.
7. To handle all my finances.
8. To create and store databases.
9. To store maps of my entire state.
10. To view family photos.
11. To play games
12. And of course, to store addresses and to plan my daily schedule.

You can also play videos, use it as a simple midi scratchpad, connect it to a GPS, etc.

The point is, the iPod won't be replacing the PDA anytime soon. And I'm sad to see Sony go... they added some much needed innovation to the market. I suspect someone is going to make a killing importing Clie's from Japan now...
You make a good point - but all that means is that the primary users of PDAs have changed. Before, personal use dominated the PDA market, and corporate use was minimal. Now, corporations are using PDAs more and more, and personal use of PDAs is slowly dying off. This trend also explains the reluctance of PDA makers like Palm to support the Macintosh, since most corporations don't use Macs - only PCs or Linux/UNIX boxes.
 
Comment

Torajima

macrumors regular
Jan 6, 2004
241
0
USA
wrldwzrd89 said:
You make a good point - but all that means is that the primary users of PDAs have changed. Before, personal use dominated the PDA market, and corporate use was minimal. Now, corporations are using PDAs more and more, and personal use of PDAs is slowly dying off. This trend also explains the reluctance of PDA makers like Palm to support the Macintosh, since most corporations don't use Macs - only PCs or Linux/UNIX boxes.

Depends on the corporation... if your business is in an audio/video related field, you most likely use Macs.

And there are some companies (like mine) that are switching to macs because we are tired of the constant headaches and security problems with PCs.

It would be pretty stupid for Palm to stop supporting the Mac... Palms are Macs users only real PDA option. PC users can (and are) switching to Pocket PCs.
 
Comment

sigamy

macrumors 65816
Mar 7, 2003
1,323
22
NJ USA
rosalindavenue said:
Apple, which makes the best laptops and the best mp3 players, and which invented the PDA, had better get in on the convergence ASAP.

Great post. I just wonder if Steve Jobs suffers from NIBM (not invented by me) as far as PDAs go and that will keep him from developing a smart phone. An Apple designed phone running Address Book, Mail, Safari and scaled down versions of iChat, iTunes and iPhoto would be awesome.
 
Comment

Torajima

macrumors regular
Jan 6, 2004
241
0
USA
BrianKonarsMac said:
the reason the clie's didn't sell well (IMO) are because they are so restrictive. you have to use Sony formatted files, otherwise it doesn't work, and you need to submit to their DRM which is quite restrictive.

What in the heck are you talking about? The Sony Clie's can run regular Palm software, play regular old mp3s, and play videos using 3rd party codecs. There is no DRM to speak of...
 
Comment

kenaustus

macrumors 6502
Jun 11, 2003
375
21
I have a little Sony SJ-30 - doesn't have a phone, camera or do my income taxes for me. I sync it with the Mac for addresses (still the most important feature) & calendar, but also download airline schedules, use a currency converter (both Windows apps thru VPC) and have some family pictures. I also use SplashWallet, which is great to keep sensitive data.

Before traveling I download (normally via VPC) bits & pieces, like translating apps and even the map of the London tube system.

My Sony is very much like my Mac in that it is simple, doesn't overload me when I want to keep it simple, but can do things I need or want. No phone, no camera and it won't do my income taxes for me.

The ability to add different apps (airline schedules, London tube maps, currency converters) is the key for a PDA and the main challenge for an Apple PDA. Development money is better spent on Macs, iPods and software.

The last thing to remember is that the elegance of the iPod is one of its main selling features. Add on a load of different physical functions and you change that elegance level. Color screen integrated with iPhoto (Mac ONLY)? Fine - still elegant. Ability to play short QuickTime files? Fine - still elegant. Download stickies? Sure. Throw in a camera, phone and vibrator for stiff necks - Aghhh.
 
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