Special Needs children tortured with electric shocks

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by iBlazed, Apr 26, 2014.

  1. iBlazed macrumors 68000

    iBlazed

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    #1
    First, let me just say what...the....*******???? I subscribe to a site called change.org and get petitions in my email pretty often, this one really struck a nerve. I don't know how this is legal and I can't understand why there hasn't been some sort of an emergency order to shut it down and criminally charge all involved. How in the hell is this happening? Personally, I won't be at peace until I know this is over, I wish there were more that I could do other than signing a petition.

    Brace yourself, this video is disturbing and they fought hard to try and keep it from the public.


     
  2. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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  3. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #3
    It's not often I'm speechless, but... things like this make me hope there is a hell.
     
  4. rdowns macrumors Penryn

    rdowns

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    #4
    Disgusting. I got the same feeling from when I first saw Geraldo Rivera's Willowbrook reports.
     
  5. VulchR, Apr 26, 2014
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2014

    VulchR macrumors 68020

    VulchR

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    #5
    Honestly my first response to this was based on rejecting the emotional rhetoric of the video. Having looked at it again, it seems at best this was an half-baked uncontrolled medical trial without dual consent, and at worse a form of severe ill treatment. I suspect that people will go to prison over this. However, I still do not think that calling this 'torture' gains us anything.
     
  6. Apple fanboy macrumors P6

    Apple fanboy

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    #6
    As the father of an Autistic child, I find this pretty shocking. There is no cure for autism. Their brain is just wired differently. You can have drugs to help with anxiety etc, but I can't see how this would help in anyway.
     
  7. iBlazed thread starter macrumors 68000

    iBlazed

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    #7
    Why shouldn't we call it exactly what it is? I'm puzzled as to how this place is legally functioning on a daily basis. I want to get the word out more and create a public outrage. I'm trying to think what else could be done. I'm just so overwhelmed with outrage over this.
     
  8. chown33 macrumors 604

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    #8
    It's repeated pain, inflicted to break resistance and enforce compliance.

    Torture can be inflicted for different reasons. Obtaining information is one, but it's hardly the only one. And it certainly isn't the one here. Enforcing compliance, however, is.

    If you have a different definition of torture, or a different goal for inflicting it, then please explain. Otherwise I think "torture" isn't just an acceptable term for what this is, it is exactly the right term.
     
  9. iBlazed thread starter macrumors 68000

    iBlazed

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    #9
    Looks like the FDA panel recommended a ban on this, and most likely the FDA will soon ban it. However, something still doesn't sit well with me. A lot of articles regarding this topic are talking about this torture very casually and not calling it what it is. How does everyone not see this?
     
  10. samiwas macrumors 65816

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    #10
    As the father of a boy with Autism, if I ever found out that someone was doing this to my little boy, they would feel actual pain and would be looking over their shoulder for the rest of their lives.
     
  11. G51989 macrumors 68030

    G51989

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    #11
    My sister has a child with Autism as well, if I ever found out that something like that was happening to him, the people doing it would find themselves in a ditch.
     
  12. TechGod macrumors 68040

    TechGod

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    #12
    I have ADHD and Dyspraxia.

    My brother has cerebral palsy and epilepsy. If someone ever attempted to do this to my brother wouldn't be ****ing alive for long and I mean it, normally I try and stay calm about stuff but this is pure ****ing ****. I cannot stay calm when this happens to special needs children.
     
  13. VulchR macrumors 68020

    VulchR

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    #13
    I knew I'd get slammed about this statement, but let me try to explain. First, I do not approve of what happened at that school, and as I said it looks like what happened was both illegal and immoral. However, I found the video sensationalistic. In particular, having non-physician experts on torture express opinions about what occurs in a medical setting makes no sense. For instance, the video asks one of the experts is they same treatment, when applied to POW's, would be considered torture and of course he replied 'yes'. One could have easily asked him about cutting POW's with knives, and yet surgery is not torture. It depends entirely on the context, the motivation for performing the painful procedure, and its long-terms benefits and costs.

    The kids were in this institution because their families could not manage them. In some cases the kids might have been a danger to themselves or others. Unless you have actually worked in a setting with people suffering from severe emotional disorders, then it is all too easy to point a finger at them and then judge them too harshly. If you think you can do better, then by all means go ahead and try. If not, then wait until the evidence is heard before judging the staff as torturers. I suspect the evidence will be damning, but suspicions are not the same things as facts.
     
  14. samiwas macrumors 65816

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    #14
    I will admit that I did not watch the video, because I can't bring myself to watch those kinds of things.

    With that being said, the visual image posted for the video shows bloody broken skin in multiple places. Are you suggesting that there is something legitimate about that and that the rest of us must just not get it?
     
  15. chown33, Apr 27, 2014
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2014

    chown33 macrumors 604

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    #15
    First, this seems more like fringe medicine than accepted general practice. I strongly question the purpose of the electric shocks.

    There are therapeutic uses of electrical shocks, but the way it's applied seems damning to me. Electro-shock therapy used to be widely used; now, not so much. Electro-stimulation and electroanalgesia are still practiced. I have personally received the latter, and while alarming at first to feel the electrical tingle, I found it effective.

    The shocks here seem to be administered as punishment to enforce compliance. I really don't see the therapeutic value there. If there's accessible material that says otherwise, I'd like to see it.


    Second, if you think surgery can't be used as torture, you'd be wrong. One could threaten a person to have his fingers surgically removed, one by one, and that would be torture if there were no medically necessary reason to do so. Yes, it would be done under sterile conditions, and the patient would be likely to recover, physically. Mentally, well, think about how well you'd hold up to that kind of threat. You might not be suffering physical pain as a result, but you'd have plenty of pain-free time to think about what happened and the upcoming surgeries.

    Granted, suspicions (or even allegations) are not the same as facts.

    But one doesn't use the term "unintended death" when one alleges that another has planned and carried out a murder. That is, the distinction between fact and allegation depends on the adjective "alleged", not by using a euphemistic or inaccurate term for the action itself.

    So in this case, and because the facts have not yet been proven in court, I would say "alleged torture". Because AFAICT the actual allegation is that this practice is torture.
     
  16. VulchR macrumors 68020

    VulchR

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    #16
    Frankly, it looked awful, but it is not possible to determine what actually happened because videos can be edited.

    It is not clear what caused those sores. It is implied that the devices did, but I would be surprised if it was the electrical shock (the devices are rated for 15-45 mA according to the video, and TENS, a treatment for chronic pain that I have used for nearly a year, delivers up to 80 mA and does not cause sores on the skin). It might have been contact dermatitis from the material on the devices or the person who wore the device might have dug at the area of skin under the device. We simply do not know. That being said, if the staff left the devices on while these sores were in place, then that would be truly negligent IMO.

    As I have noted above TENS goes up to 80 mA and the devices used at the school appear to be in the range of 15-45 mA. Thus I wonder if the reaction of the student in the video has more to do with their condition than the shock.

    That seems to me to be correct: the devices were used to ensure compliance. The question is whether compliance was necessary for the safety of the student, other students or the staff. I am not sure why the shocked the student for not handing over a coat, so it does seem very dubious. However, perhaps there was a compelling reason to take the coat away (e.g., a stashed cache of medication or drugs, a potential weapon, etc). I doubt it, but none of us knows for sure.

    The important thing is that the action alone cannot be defined as torture without considering the context, the motivation for the action, and its impact over all time periods. i do not think that non-medical experts on torture should offer an opinion in a medical context. Of course they can comment (and one UN expert did say that more information was needed), but they should not make judgements outside their area that might be used in a legal case.

    That was my main point.

    Fair enough.
     
  17. iBlazed thread starter macrumors 68000

    iBlazed

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    #17
    These are GED machines, and have been known to cause burns. I can't understand how they are allowed to use it, being that they created the more powerful version of it themselves, the GED-4, so it's not even FDA approved. They took a GED machine and took the liberty of modifying it. This is all so sketchy...

     
  18. LIVEFRMNYC macrumors 603

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    #18
    I see torture at the first 24 seconds. I can't fathom how anyone can justify that. :mad:
     

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