Splitting hybrid drive with high sierra?

[Heliotropen]

My Imac late 2013 have become to slow, and it's killing me.
(Made another thread about it a few months ago, but din't do anything about it yet).

So I'm thinking of splitting my hybrid drive on my imac late 2013, and reinstall the the latest beta of High Sierra on the machine.

(using the SSD for High Sierra and my apps obviously, and the rest for data).

Would there be anything I should think off here?

What would be the best way to do it?
(I'm willing to format the machine and start totally over if that's the smartest thing to do).

Is it a good idea bad idea?

Hope someone can help me save this poor mac, and press a few more years out of it xD
Thank you so much.

 

[Fishrrman]

"I'm thinking of splitting my hybrid drive on my imac late 2013"

You mean the fusion drive, is that correct?

If that's what you mean, it's not a bad idea, and actually should work well, IF you give it some thought.

You will need a fully-bootable external source for both a backup and a boot drive.

I recommend that you use either CarbonCopyCloner or SuperDuper to produce a BOOTABLE clone of your current fusion drive before you begin.
(both CCC and SD are FREE to download and use for 30 days).

Having this bootable backup, mountable in the finder, will prove VERY useful as you rebuild things from your old setup. (tip: before you manually migrate from backup external to new internal setup, be sure to go to the "get info" box for the external drive [icon], click the lock at the bottom, enter password, and put a checkmark into "ignore ownership on this volume" -- gets around permissions problems).

Put the OS, applications, and your "basic accounts" on the SSD.
By "basic accounts", I mean, put large libraries (of music, pictures and movies) on the internal HDD.

The goal is to keep the SSD "lean and clean" with plenty of free space.

You will have to get used to managing TWO volumes instead of one.
This is EASY.

By doing this, the SSD will ALWAYS run at the FULL SPEEDS of which it's capable.
The stuff that is stored on the HDD doesn't need "fast access speed" anyway.

Final thought:
You might want to hold off doing this until the final, public release of High Sierra is out.

 

[Crash0veride]

I wouldn't keep them together and upgrade. Apple doesn't intend to "upgrade" fusion drives to apfs automatically on final release, and I think they would push this if it was ready/advantageous. https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT208018

 

[Heliotropen]

First of all thank you so much from replying

And yeah you are right man, I mean fusion drive (sry about that ... dooh).

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How much free space would I need on the SSD part for it to run at maximum speed?
And how much does Mac Os take up?

Should probably make sure there is room for all my apps.

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Managing 2 drives should not be a problem.

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As for Carbon or Super, what is the importance of that?

As I said though I'm happy to dump all data on the machine and reinstall it from scratch; I want it as clean and fast as possible. But if it makes something easier, and it won't become more cluttered, then why not.

I already have all my data (not my apps) backed up (everything including the desktop is synced trough dropbox with my macbook).

--

Is there any downside in splitting it up vs running it as a fusiondrive?

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And yeah, I have never jumped onto a beta before: I'm really considering if I should go on it now or wait.

How is the process there? I take it the beta will be upgradable to the full version without reinstalling right?

Or to ask diffrently: is it that I risk reinstalling when the golden version comes out? or is it just that I risk it being a bit buggy untill?

The thing is I would like to do this now, since the speed is killing me ... but if it's problematic to do it now, then I will wait.

I have a backup macbook pro, if something goes wrong - but if it will clutter up something I will wait.
[doublepost=1504627115][/doublepost]

I wouldn't keep them together and upgrade. Apple doesn't intend to "upgrade" fusion drives to apfs automatically on final release, and I think they would push this if it was ready/advantageous. https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT208018

Sry, I'm not sure I get what you are writing here (sry I'm not native english haha).

So just to make sure:
Do you mean I should split the fusion drive into 2 (sdd + hdd) and then upgrade?
OR what are you suggesting?

1) if kept as fusion I could upgrade the fusion drive to apfs manually right?
2) How about if I split it? I can make the SSD apfs, and the HDD will have to stay "normal"?

Thxn for answering man, apriciates it.

 

[Crash0veride]

I'm recommending you split them if you change to apfs. OR don't switch to apfs and use HFS+ fusion on high Sierra.

I don't know if you can manually update to apfs for fusions. You can for other drives, but I have not tested a fusion.

Maybe helpful: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/apfs-and-fusion-drives.2048692/

 

[ryxn]

Why would you want to go through all of that work to make APFS work on a fusion drive, especially with this being your first beta? Some users on this forum have experienced success with fusion drives and APFS, some haven't. I also post on the official Apple Dev forums, and their experiences with it have been largely negative. Most devs working with fusion drives and APFS are holding off until we figure out what exactly Apple is going to do with them.

I wouldn't keep them together and upgrade. Apple doesn't intend to "upgrade" fusion drives to apfs automatically on final release, and I think they would push this if it was ready/advantageous. https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT208018

Per the title of that support article, that information applies to Administrators, not typical end users. Administrators running Macs have other dependencies they need to worry on that play a role in how new operating systems are rolled out. Apple was careful with the wording in their article for a reason - because APFS is a beta file system. They are still working on it, and we can't draw conclusions from that article alone. There has been no official word from Apple stating fusion drives won't be supported, in fact, their own documentation contradicts them.

This is taken directly from https://developer.apple.com/library...OSX/WhatsNewInOSX/Articles/macOS_10_13_0.html

New in macOS 10.13 - APFS support.

• The OS Installer will automatically convert your system/root volume to APFS as a part of the installation process. The following formats are converted to APFS: plain HFS+, CoreStorage, FileVault encrypted, and Fusion systems.

This file system comes out in less than a month in its final form, why not wait until then? Your speeds aren't going to dramatically increase from APFS alone.

 

[Heliotropen]

Crash0veride, thnx man.

I tried clean install sierra not that long ago, and the machine went slow again rather fast after I started installing software on it.

So the question is if I will get the fastest

1) machine splitting the drive + installing High Sierra on it.

2) If installing High Sierra will be enough or almost as fast.

ryxn, you seam to get it backwards? I'm considering splitting the disk (or at least clean install the os) to make the machine that has gone deadly slow => faster again.

If I do so (and I will have to do something soon) - I would like to do it with High Sierra, instead of with old Sierra.

And if High Sierra why not APFS on the SSD part of the drive?

 

[ryxn]

Crash0veride, thnx man.

I tried clean install sierra not that long ago, and the machine went slow again rather fast after I started installing software on it.

So the question is if I will get the fastest

1) machine splitting the drive + installing High Sierra on it.

2) If installing High Sierra will be enough or almost as fast.

ryxn, you seam to get it backwards? I'm considering splitting the disk (or at least clean install the os) to make the machine that has gone deadly slow => faster again.

If I do so (and I will have to do something soon) - I would like to do it with High Sierra, instead of with old Sierra.

And if High Sierra why not APFS on the SSD part of the drive?

I know what you're saying, and I'm not shooting down your idea completely. I do know people personally who have split their fusion drives with success. However, my point is, with being so late in the beta and the release likely being less than a month away, why not wait until we see how APFS works with fusion drives and do the split after?

But if don't want to wait until then, this is the guide those people have used https://www.macworld.com/article/2015664/storage-flash/how-to-split-up-a-fusion-drive.html

 

[dianeoforegon]

I split my Fusion iMac late 2014. Converted the SSD to APFS but left the 1TB drive as HFS. Most of my data is on the HD. I still use the Desktop and Downloads folder but keep them clean. The User's Library with Mail and Outlook data for me works, but for some folks that have large mailboxes, you would need to archive data to a third party app like EagleFiler.

The 120GB SSD has used 81GB with 36GB free.

 

[Heliotropen]

ryxn: Thank you so much.

0) I will wait that month to do it then ... though the speed is killing me right now, and it's my work that suffers.

sry for all the questions, but are you then suggesting me to split it
1) Split it and use APFS.
2) Or do you suggest that APFS alone might fix that it's so slow?

dianeoforegon - thnx thats really REALLY awesome feedback:

1) Do it feel faster? allot, or just a little?

2) Is there anyway I could get you to tell me what method you used to make you setup?
How did you:
- Split it (did you just use those old terminal guides?
- convert it to APFS (any guides on this?)
- Install HS (from usb, or?)

3) If you where me right now, would you wait for the Golden Version, or just do it with the latest beta?

4) My main archive are HUGE actually: and I often search my mails for something.

With that being said, I almost always use my macbook pro to deal with mails that way (and it's fast at that).
I would like to be able to read and respond to mails on the imac also though:

Perhaps I can think somekind of optimal system to make that happen.

Guys I really can't say how much I appricates this.

 

[saulinpa]

You are saying that you have performance problems now. Before you proceed with changing the operating system you should do a few hardware checks. At a minimum boot to recovery and do a first aid on the disk. Also try SMARTReporter and SSDReporter to make sure the disks are good.

Then standard recommendation: Adding memory is almost always a benefit. And it is relatively inexpensive compared to how it used to be.

 

[Heliotropen]

saulinpa yes that's exactly my reason to want to do something, I have had huge performance problems with the machine.
I have 8 gb in it, hmm could put more in, but should not really be it.

I made another thread about it sometime ago - but decided to wait doing something since High Sierra was right around the corner anyways.

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/upgrade-imac-late-2013-ssd-internal-vs-external.2054977/

 

[Crash0veride]

Honestly, a fresh install really helps on a system that's more than 3 years old in my experience, though this is anecdotal. 16GB ram is quite nice also, but not super beneficial for not demanding setups. Fastest solution would be to pop out the HDD, pop in a 2.5" SSD and use JBOD in the Disk Utility RAID setup to concatenate the two SSD disks into one volume. Though this isn't a particularly easy DIY project on an iMac.

 

[Heliotropen]

Yeah I tried a new installation a year ago, and it was fast for a while, but it was like when I started installing software, and the data started pulling in - it because really slow, really fast again ... (like in less than a month it slowed down insanely).

Yeah that would be my dream thing to do - but I don't think I dare to cut the machine open, if I can avoid it ...
And I would like to keep the cost down (at least at the moment).

But I really appreciates the feedback.

 

[saulinpa]

For memory - Take a look in Activity Monitor. Memory pressure should be green. Swap Used should be minimal. On my 8GB MBA things slow when swap is a 300 MB or so.

More than likely you have a bad app and the problem will come back.

Back to the original question.... Splitting the drive only makes sense if you have huge data files or speed doesn't matter. You can emulate that by using a USB attached hard drive and putting your data there to test.

 

[Heliotropen]

Running a first aid on the disk right now, but I don't think there is anything wrong with the disk itself.

Hmm how do I find a bad app if it's there?

saulinapa, don't get what you mean, can you deepen the answer a bit?

I have huge amounts of huge data files (video and stuff (in folders on the desktop)).
All is synced with dropbox, dropbox is especially slow...

But it really is that just I have a few programs running at once it's really slow.
Apple mail is insanely slow.

It takes ALONG time to open apps (all apps, even small ones).

If the swap or whatever and the apps was all on the ssd, it would be faster right?

 

[saulinpa]

Let's look at the most likely issue. Please tell us what Activity Monitor shows for your memory usage when things are slow. Specifically the "Swap Used:" value at the bottom.

 

[Heliotropen]

Mail, and chrome can take more than 30 just to open, and can show huge thinking gaps, not to mention the mail app that is horrible on this machine. - Worst is the emojy thingy if i want to make an emoji the windows will take a minute to load.

Here is a screenshot right after boot, and one while I'm working on the animal.

 

[EugW]

Mail, and chrome can take more than 30 just to open, and can show huge thinking gaps, not to mention the mail app that is horrible on this machine. - Worst is the emojy thingy if i want to make an emoji the windows will take a minute to load.

Wow, that's weird.

That's much worse than my 2010 iMac with HDD only.

 

[Heliotropen]

Hmm yeah - rather weird actually - my macbook pro is a year never pure ssd - so not sure if it's comparing with that one that makes me have too high expectations? but it feel really slow next to (only in high graphic demanding apps does it seam to have an advantage). - It feels like it's the disk that is really slow on it - but no errors.

 

[saulinpa]

So your memory is good. Adding probably won't help much as you are not swapping. I see a bunch of different software running.

Did you every try SMARTReporter and SSDReporter to make sure the disks are good?

One other test you can do: Create another user account and try running as that user. Some of the background stuff won't run so might help it sort out.

 

[Heliotropen]

Yeah, there is no error, the disks should be good ...

You mean create another user, log into it, log out and go back to my old user?

Hmm perhaps the aid thing have done something anyways ... it have taken me about 15 secs to open chrome the last few times...