SS And Medicare Are Done For

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by RootBeerMan, Apr 29, 2018.

  1. RootBeerMan macrumors 65816

    RootBeerMan

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    #1
    Thomas Knapp, over at the Garrison Center brought this little tidbit to my attention and I must say he is dead on. Social Security is done for, and so is Medicare. Their funds are near depletion and without highway robbery and cuts to the system they will be unsustainable by 2034, (when all the reserves are gone). It's time to start reeling it out and letting it die a natural death, rather than overtaxing the generations to come. I've long suspected that I would never get to collect it in any substantial way, and I'm going to have to be good with that. Let the Millenials off the hook for paying for for them and let them and the generations behind them invest their money in a better retirement system. Slavery to the aged is still slavery.

    http://thegarrisoncenter.org/archives/13359#czce0jTUDkxhtxSu.01

    https://www.ssa.gov/oact/trsum/
     
  2. Zenithal macrumors 604

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    #2
    Most social programs such as that, the GI bill and the Veterans Affair are a drain on any country. It's only stable if the money going in keeps up with the CoL
     
  3. shinji macrumors 65816

    shinji

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    #3
    It is very unlikely that Congress will just end social security altogether, rather than simply raise payroll taxes or cut benefits to pay for the shortfall.

    A payroll tax increase from 12.4% to 16% would keep the system solvent, and so would cutting benefits by ~25%. Congress may very well only be able to agree on some combination of the two (along with raising the ~$128k cap on income subject to payroll tax), although the prospect of cutting benefits has historically done poorly in polling. Hard to know what will happen between now and 2034.

    https://www.cbpp.org/research/socia...ayroll-taxes-would-strengthen-social-security
     
  4. Mac'nCheese macrumors 68040

    Mac'nCheese

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    #4
    People can barely get by on what they get now. I can imagine how losing a quarter of it would go over.
     
  5. shinji macrumors 65816

    shinji

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    #5
    I agree, it's a real problem with no easy solutions. I'm in favor of raising payroll taxes to keep it going, but it's anyone's guess what Congress will be able to agree on.
     
  6. mac_in_tosh macrumors 6502

    mac_in_tosh

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    #6
    The GOP just passed tax cuts that will add about 1.5 trillion to the national debt over the next decade. The people and corporations getting the bulk of these cuts were doing well and there was no need to do it other than to pay back the GOP donors. We were warned that once that was done, the GOP would come back and start attacking entitlements as being too expensive. Just a bunch of greedy, soul-less people. And your use of the phrase "slavery to the aged" is indicative of that mindset. In some countries, people value the aged and don't look upon them as just a drain on their wallets.
     
  7. Mac'nCheese macrumors 68040

    Mac'nCheese

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    #7
    Is there such a thing as having a certain amount of money when you retire and then not be eligible to get social security? Like...you’re a billionaire , you don’t need a few hundred bucks a month.
     
  8. I7guy macrumors P6

    I7guy

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    #8
    I want what’s due me. I paid a kings ransom into the system and I want that money along with my private pension. They certainly have no issue taking my money, they had better figure out how to give it back.
     
  9. Thomas Veil macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

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    #9
    Knapp is being an alarmist. They've been crying doom about Social Security forever. He specifically says:

    My emphasis. The salary cap is currently at $128,000. They raised it this year, and they raised it last year. So bang right there, Knapp's premises are based on false assumptions.

    Similarly Medicare may get tight for a while but will not become insolvent:

    The second link, from SSA, is considerably more gloomy. But I would point out that two of the signers of that report are Steve Mnuchin and Tom Price, neither of whom I would trust as far as I can throw them. This administration in particular is openly hostile to social programs and is not beneath undercutting them. As mac_in_tosh pointed out, the GOP is already cutting taxes to provide themselves with an excuse to do away with so-called entitlements.
     
  10. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    #10
    Means test SS benefits distribution before going to current taxpayers, if SS isn't solvent then your generation ****ed something up.

    Somehow not fair to withhold a check from a guy sitting on $20 million, but willing to take a paycheck from a kid who can barely afford rent.
     
  11. weckart macrumors 601

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    #11
    Problem is that means testing is open to abuse and expensive to implement. Which is why the government in the UK just gives child support to anyone regardless of income. Trying to target it to those who need it would cost more than any savings from not paying out to the rich, however politically damaging it might be. Voters just see the injustice but rarely consider the problems in trying to fix that.
     
  12. Bug-Creator macrumors 6502

    Bug-Creator

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    #12
    That would make the systems insolvent TODAY and put many people who are either already relying on these benefits or are to close to relying on them to react to such changes into poverty.

    Any changes to such systems need to be slow&careful or otherwise you end up f###### millions without warning.
     
  13. BoxerGT2.5 macrumors 68000

    BoxerGT2.5

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    #13
    Raise the cap to $1 million and raise the retirement age gradually on everyone under 35 with exceptions for those doing manual labor. Problem is politically we're so divided that to have an honest discussion or compromise is next to impossible. Both parties would rather kick the can down the road and try to win more seats in order to craft a deal on their terms.
     
  14. s2mikey macrumors 68020

    s2mikey

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    #14
    I agree totally. I never made a lot of money but Ive been working steadily since I was 18 years old and I fully expect MY CUT when its time. I paid in, it is not a freebie. :(

    Ummm yeah. NO way a payroll tax is the right thing at all. Get off the backs of us that are on W2 payrolls. We pay enough. I have an idea. How about taxing investment/capital gains income at a higher rate than the measley 15% that they do now? That aint enough. Of course, just go after the higher gain transactions, not the lower-level 401K stuff that would further hurt the working classes. Raise that to like 20%. Start there.

    Huge issue but there is money there. They have to cut other crap which is always hard to do.
     
  15. Plutonius, May 1, 2018
    Last edited: May 1, 2018

    Plutonius macrumors 604

    Plutonius

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    #15
    Do you consider a means test fair considering people paid for their future SS benefits (i.e. the government invested a person's money and now says they can't have it) ? Perhaps the government can raid peoples bank accounts based on a means test ?
    --- Post Merged, May 1, 2018 ---
    It's a hard issue for them because any changes that are perceived as taking away benefits or taxing people will lose them the next election. If we had term limits in Congress they might be more receptive to taking on the tough issues.
    --- Post Merged, May 1, 2018 ---
    Sounds like a response to climate change.

    The proponents of climate change say we need to start making changes now for the future.
    Other people say that the climate change people are being alarmist.

    Do you really believe that SS can keep on going even with increasing the cap and that changes are not needed ?
     
  16. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    #16
    So you develop and maintain a system that goes insolvant under your generations reign and you think it's fairer to take a chunk from someone's pay check to shore up the system they will never see instead of means testing the distribution of funds?
     
  17. NT1440 macrumors G5

    NT1440

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    #17
    Social Security is universal. Any talk of means testing is the final death knell in the notion that America is a society instead of a group off *******s who don't give a damn about each other.
     
  18. chown33 macrumors 604

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    #18
    Too late. They're called tax brackets.
     
  19. Plutonius macrumors 604

    Plutonius

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    #19
    I think that rather than means testing or grabbing more money, they need to fix the system.

    Currently, only $.72 out of each dollar is going into the SS trust fund. When only 3/4 of the money is getting into the fund, of course you will eventually run out. It's similar to underfunded pensions.

    SS administration cost are less than $.01 so you still have 1/4 of each dollar that needs to move outside of SS. SSI and SSDI need to be funded and move to new programs outside of SS.
    --- Post Merged, May 1, 2018 ---
    The tax brackets are in regards to taxes on income. I asked if it's ok if we used means test to grab money directly from peoples bank account. If they have a lot of money, they obviously don't need most of their money /s.
     
  20. VulchR macrumors 68020

    VulchR

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    #20
    Teh solution is simple: The government will have to pay older people to commit suicide. ;)
     
  21. guzhogi macrumors 68030

    guzhogi

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    #21
    I wonder why it wasn't setup to do this in the first place? I just wonder what the average life expectancy at retirement when SS was first implemented vs. what it is now? If people are living longer after they retire, then no wonder SS will run out of money. Unfortunately, I've heard a bunch of people saying that they don't want to work until the age of XX to retire. I'm just like, fine, just save up your money another way.
     
  22. BoxerGT2.5 macrumors 68000

    BoxerGT2.5

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    #22
    61 was the life expectancy in 1935, today it's 79.
     
  23. curmudgeonette macrumors 6502

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    California
    #23
    If that were to happen, rich young people would demand to opt entirely out of the SS system. If they'll never get benefits in the future, then why should they be paying into the system?

    This would likely hurt the system more than paying benefits to the rich.
     
  24. Zombie Acorn, May 1, 2018
    Last edited: May 1, 2018

    Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    #24
    Rich young people are outnumbered by poor young people and all of us already know this system isn't going to be solvent for us. Rather it be a safety net in case you get ****ed later in life than use it as pocket money while you live the wealthy life.

    The least fair thing is to increase taxes on the current generation and give the money to already rich people.

    Current generation is already getting ****ed by unfunded pension liabilities that weigh companies down that they also don't get to participate in.

    So in the end you have wealthy pensioners getting extra government money that they voted people in to manage poorly, increasing debt and an ask from the current generation who don't get pensions and won't be able to get SS to foot the bill. **** that. And they call the millennials the entitled generation.
     
  25. Herdfan macrumors 6502

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    #25
    I think we need to abandon payroll taxes as a matter of funding this. Make it a broad sales or VAT tax. This would bring the underground economy into helping fund it. A rate somewhere in the 7-8% range would fund it at today's level. So make it 10% which is still a 5% tax cut for working folks and provides some additional funds to help stabilize the program.
    --- Post Merged, May 2, 2018 ---
    Nope.
     

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