State of the Union


Thomas Veil

macrumors 68020
Feb 14, 2004
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OBJECTIVE reality
gwuMACaddict said:
(noticed there wasn't a thread about this yet...)
Yeah, guess we were unimpressed.

For me, the only good part was the Dems booing Bush on his Social Security statistics, the first sign of some spine that I've seen from the left side of the aisle. Other than that, much of it was the same b.s. we heard on the campaign trail.

Sorry I don't have anything more specific to offer, but I was so disgusted to see him back in that chamber that I was only paying minimal attention.
 

Xtremehkr

macrumors 68000
Jul 4, 2004
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gwuMACaddict said:
i thought that the mother of the deceased soldiar hugging the woman from iraq was incredibly moving.
As you were supposed to. Did you shed a tear when Janet, the lady who lost her son and yet still wrote a letter of support to President Bush, was mentioned, spotlighted and applauded?

How about all of the soldiers standing in the box with Laura?



What a show!
 

Xtremehkr

macrumors 68000
Jul 4, 2004
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When did Asbestos become such a big deal anyway?

Halliburton losses hit $602m on asbestos claims

Halliburton's $4.2 Billion Asbestos Settlement is Final

Cheney, Halliburton financed sponsors of bill to limit asbestos-suit liability

Halliburton pays dearly but Finally escapes Cheney's Asbestos mess.

A little timeline showing Halliburton stalling while Cheney tries to legislate some help

Abestos Bill could be windfall for business

You have to wonder, between the emotional presentations by relatives of those killed in an illegal war and using the SOU to grandstand claims about asbestos suits ruing the country, who this guy is really working for?

Well, some people still have to be asked that.
 

Blue Velvet

Moderator emeritus
Jul 4, 2004
21,652
123
This was live on BBC radio late last night... I was dozing and woke up a few times during it.

At one point, I recall thinking 'this is like a soviet or chinese communist party address...'

Not in content, but in the slavish way every sentence or two was enthusiastically applauded by the lackeys.
 

Dont Hurt Me

macrumors 603
Dec 21, 2002
6,056
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Yahooville S.C.
I think it was a good performance, he has some good ideas but i dont think i really want the republicans touching healthcare nor SS. Looking at the past few years its very clear their priority are the mega corporations not the patient nor the Doctor or Nurse. They are working on the behalf of that fat cat executive's who is sitting in a office pushing paper making millions figuring out how to screw patients out of more while making it harder for doctors to practice.
It was sad seeing the mother and father on national Tv.
1st question we should ask this administrations is did we need to go to Iraq?
2nd question is the reason SS and the National debt is so screwed is because of this administrations terrible spending habits. This president has said yes to every bill Congress has sent him so in effect no one watching congress.
3rd question is why in 4 years why has nothing been done on Mexico. Are we the united states of America or are we the United States of anyone to walk in. If thats the case why have borders or even a country? we need to hold the president and Congress accountable for their lack of action while in the meantime growing the police state.

In the end a nice speech filled with lots of rhetoric and the Demo's pretty much showed their rhetoric afterwards. Notice when the president start talking about marriage and making it clear what it was. The Demo's didnt appluad nor stand. I guess gay marriage is why they were sitting.

So we have the Democrats who dont seem to want to defend marriage and what it is, they dont want to take on the Mexico border, and they gave this president everything he wanted to go into Iraq. They backed the Patriot act. Pretty hard to get behind this party. Its why they lost the last election. They are as bad as the republicans and dont stand for Mainstream America.
 

mactastic

macrumors 68040
Apr 24, 2003
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Colly-fornia
Vintage Bush. Nothing shocking or extraordinary about this SOTU. The Iraqi woman hugging the mother of the fallen soldier was a nice touch though.

I missed the first 20 minutes or so, and for the rest of it I was busy in the garage putting some polyurethane on some shelves I'm working on so I was only paying partial attention anyway, but I heard the last 2/3 of the speech. I'm glad the Dems made some noise over Bush's SS plans. And then when it turned to foreign policy I kept thinking about how the US would react if another country, particularly one like say China, were to make a speech with such threatening over and undertones to it regarding so many different parts of the world.

Anyhoo... like I said, this is about what I expect from Bush these days. Pure Christian neo-conservatism. Lots of bluster and then no action. Sure he supports a constitutional amendment to protect the sanctity of marriage. But will he actually do anything about it? How about the hydrogen power stuff from years past? Is he ever going to do anything about North Korea besides wait for them to sell nuclear material to terrorists?

All hat and no cattle.

Of course the same goes for the Democrats and their painfully alternative-free response. The Dems really need a plan of action almost as much as Bush needs an exit strategy for Iraq.
 

IJ Reilly

macrumors P6
Jul 16, 2002
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Palookaville
mactastic said:
Of course the same goes for the Democrats and their painfully alternative-free response. The Dems really need a plan of action almost as much as Bush needs an exit strategy for Iraq.
No kidding! The Democratic "response" was the only part of this event I caught in full -- Harry Reid doing his folksy grandpa act and Nancy Pelosi, speaking with the passion and commitment normally associated with waxed fruit.
 

Thanatoast

macrumors 65816
Dec 3, 2002
1,005
134
Denver
I was disgusted that not two minutes after calling for a anti-gay marriage amendment to the Constitution, he was saying that he believed in a free and equal society.

Also, saying that "activist" judges need to find their place under the other two branches of government was pretty disturbing. (Not the words he used, but the intent was pretty obvious) I was talking to the tv, mentioning we live in a common law system where judges make decisions based on precedent and interpretation. If he wants judges to just be clerks, that's Roman law - what they use in :gasp!: France.

What annoyed me more than anything else was the complete inadequacy of the Democratic response. Harry Reid sounded way too scripted and artificially cheery, which reduced his credibility in my eyes. (I know, compared to Bush?....but still). And then they focused on the piddliest? banal? crap.

Nancy Pelosi started the sentence strong - "We must never again send our troops in to combat....(based upon lies and deception? in pursuit of defense contracts? without a plan for withdrawl? having used unverifiable intelligence derived from sources with their own agendas?)...with inadequate supplies."

"WHAT?!!!! Inadequate supplies!? *That's* the *best* you could come up with?!"

"Oh no, we would never question the rationale behind spending three hundred billion dollars on an illegal war which alienated our friends and destroyed a nation, sending it into complete anarchy. Instead we're going to complain that we didn't send enough guns."

As long as the only opposition Karl Rove has is the toothless Democratic party, things are only going to get worse.
 

chanoc

macrumors 6502
May 20, 2003
339
0
Anchorage, Alaska USA
Bush actually thinks (or is blinding the people to think) that the Iraq vote will bring Democracy. :rolleyes:

What will happen when the troops leave?

See what Molly Ivins has to say:


Here's hoping.
The trouble with being a congenital optimist is that gloom-mongering feels so uncomfortable. The election in Iraq Sunday, like the one in Afghanistan last year, was moving, inspiring and hopeful. When there's a ray of light breaking through in a dark sky, I'd much rather concentrate on the ray than the black clouds.

But mitigating my optimism is the fact that I've been around for a long time. Not that longevity is any guarantee of wisdom, but it does provide perspective. I can remember when they had elections in Vietnam that looked hopeful in 1967. I can remember the elections in El Salvador in 1984. And I remember last year's election in Afghanistan, with the almost unbearably moving sight of Afghani women coming out to vote. Still, it didn't kill off a single raping warlord, did it?

Bush is full of scat. :mad:
 

daveL

macrumors 68020
Jun 18, 2003
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Montana
Bush is the greatest living example of the downside of democracy and capitalism. The man has no center; he's a zealot propelled by special interests. Less than 4 years to go ....
 

daveL

macrumors 68020
Jun 18, 2003
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Montana
Sorry for the double post, but it occurred to me that nothing is going to change in the US until all the old fart Christian right dies off. I really believe that is why the Dems are having problems. It's all demographics, after all. How do you deal with a political climate where the most active, moneyed and experienced voters are sitting there worrying about death? The left is about youthful ideals and constant questioning, the right, especially the Christian right that Bush represents, is about exclusion, control and blind faith in the face of authority. We're screwed.
 

takao

macrumors 68040
Dec 25, 2003
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Dornbirn (Austria)
haven't watched it but the local conservative newspaper completly teared it apart ....

they called it "like a giant TV ad" "40 minutes speech getting streched to an hour with intentional 'spontanous' interruppting applauses+standing ovations"

66 big applauses/standing ovations in a 40 minutes speech...

(at least for the first time ever there were 'booing' in a state of union speech..at least to the newspaper)
 

Thomas Veil

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Feb 14, 2004
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IJ Reilly said:
No kidding! The Democratic "response" was the only part of this event I caught in full -- Harry Reid doing his folksy grandpa act and Nancy Pelosi, speaking with the passion and commitment normally associated with waxed fruit.
Yeah, that wasn't exactly a fire-in-the-belly retort. More like a tower of Jell-O.

Hopefully Howard Dean will do something about that if and when he becomes chairman.
 

Lyle

macrumors 68000
Jun 11, 2003
1,874
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Madison, Alabama
daveL said:
I certainly don't mean to see the guy dead...
Yes, it was unfair of chanoc to suggest that you were singling out the President. You made it pretty clear that you want all Christians dead:
daveL said:
... it occurred to me that nothing is going to change in the US until all the old fart Christian right dies off.
Let me guess: I'll bet you're one of those people who doesn't understand why other people aren't as "open minded" as he is, right? :rolleyes:
 

IJ Reilly

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Jul 16, 2002
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Thomas Veil said:
Yeah, that wasn't exactly a fire-in-the-belly retort. More like a tower of Jell-O.

Hopefully Howard Dean will do something about that if and when he becomes chairman.
Dean hasn't even been selected yet, officially, but he's already under attack as being the "wrong man for the job."

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-chait4feb04,0,4714338.column

Who knows? I sure don't. But the Democrats have had plenty of dull and ineffectual party leaders over decades, so I should think the pundits would just shut up for a while and give Dean at least a few days on the job before opining about his suitability for it.
 

mactastic

macrumors 68040
Apr 24, 2003
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Colly-fornia
daveL said:
Sorry for the double post, but it occurred to me that nothing is going to change in the US until all the old fart Christian right dies off. I really believe that is why the Dems are having problems. It's all demographics, after all. How do you deal with a political climate where the most active, moneyed and experienced voters are sitting there worrying about death? The left is about youthful ideals and constant questioning, the right, especially the Christian right that Bush represents, is about exclusion, control and blind faith in the face of authority. We're screwed.
It's not like there's a limited supply of them you know... There are plenty of youth in the Christian movement that will become the next generation of leaders in the church.

Waiting them out isn't a good strategy.
 

mactastic

macrumors 68040
Apr 24, 2003
3,647
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Colly-fornia
IJ Reilly said:
Dean hasn't even been selected yet, officially, but he's already under attack as being the "wrong man for the job."

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-chait4feb04,0,4714338.column

Who knows? I sure don't. But the Democrats have had plenty of dull and ineffectual party leaders over decades, so I should think the pundits would just shut up for a while and give Dean at least a few days on the job before opining about his suitability for it.
Donna Brazille seems to think Dean is a slam dunk for chairman at this point. Did you see Carville's comment on the matter? Something to the effect of 'Why the hell are we doing this publicly? This isn't the presidency, get some people in a smoke-filled room to decide and make it happen. Do you think the Republicans would let this happen to them?' :rolleyes:
 

IJ Reilly

macrumors P6
Jul 16, 2002
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Palookaville
mactastic said:
Donna Brazille seems to think Dean is a slam dunk for chairman at this point. Did you see Carville's comment on the matter? Something to the effect of 'Why the hell are we doing this publicly? This isn't the presidency, get some people in a smoke-filled room to decide and make it happen. Do you think the Republicans would let this happen to them?' :rolleyes:
I can't recall what happened the last time the Republicans chose a party chief, and quite possibly I won't remember this section process in a few years either. But yes, it does seem at best like an obsession with "inside baseball" to follow this process with such avid attention to all the smallest details.

(Another Richard Thompson fan -- okay! :) )