Stealing an Election - Legally.

Southern Dad

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Just for discussion sake, what if a group of Republicans from very red states were move to Wisconsin 10 days before the general election. Let's say that they all went to the 2nd, 3rd or 4th district.

Wisconsin only has a 28 day residency with no voter identification required.
 
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bradl

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Jun 16, 2008
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Just for discussion sake, what if a group of Republicans from very red states were move to Wisconsin 10 days before the general election. Let's say that they all went to the 2nd, 3rd or 4th district.

Wisconsin only has a 10 day residency with no voter identification required.
Okay, I'll bite.

First, source the bold please, for reference.

Second, they would still have to establish residency and register to vote prior to the election. VoterID has nothing to do with it. Whatever paperwork is required to show proof of residency is what is needed.

Third, are these Republicans planning on leaving the state after the election? If so, that does bring in the issue of voter fraud. With the consequences of that, I seriously doubt anyone would want to test/tempt those waters, especially with the consequences of being caught.

Fourth: What would you say if a group of Democrats or Independents did the same thing?

BL.
 

Southern Dad

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Original poster
May 23, 2010
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Voter Photo ID Law Information

Registration and Voting

I apologize, it appears that they have a 28 day requirement now. This link is wrong or out of date but still a 28 day plan to steal and election?

Proof of residency can be a simple lease. One person rents a room to a few dozen... They allow registration on election day.

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Okay, I'll bite.

First, source the bold please, for reference.

Second, they would still have to establish residency and register to vote prior to the election. VoterID has nothing to do with it. Whatever paperwork is required to show proof of residency is what is needed.

Third, are these Republicans planning on leaving the state after the election? If so, that does bring in the issue of voter fraud. With the consequences of that, I seriously doubt anyone would want to test/tempt those waters, especially with the consequences of being caught.

Fourth: What would you say if a group of Democrats or Independents did the same thing?

BL.
Yes, a group of Democrats could do the same thing. I was making an example. Your third point is questionable. Why do they have to stay after the election? How long would they have to stay?

A current and valid Wisconsin driver license.
A current and valid Wisconsin identification card.
Any other official identification card or license issued by a Wisconsin governmental body or unit.
Any identification card issued by an employer in the normal course of business and bearing a photo of the card holder, but not including a business card.
A real estate tax bill or receipt for the current year or the year preceding the date of the election.
A residential lease which is effective for a period that includes election day (NOT for first-time voters registering by mail).
A university, college or technical institute identification card (must include photo), ONLY if the bearer provides a fee receipt dated within the last nine months or the institution provides a certified housing list to the municipal clerk.
A gas, electric or telephone service statement (utility bill) for the period commencing not earlier than 90 days before election day.
Bank statement.
Paycheck.
A check or other document issued by a unit of government.
 

FreemanW

macrumors 6502
Sep 10, 2012
472
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The Real Northern California
Why go through the expense and logistics of physically moving people when you can simply alter some closed and proprietary software code and get away clean?

It's been done, in your state, and many others.

For those that would welcome a Banana Republic, it is time to celebrate, cause the U.S. of A. is there. :)
 

G51989

macrumors 68030
Feb 25, 2012
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NYC NY/Pittsburgh PA
Just for discussion sake, what if a group of Republicans from very red states were move to Wisconsin 10 days before the general election. Let's say that they all went to the 2nd, 3rd or 4th district.

Wisconsin only has a 10 day residency with no voter identification required.
Here is the real question.

Why would normal people piss away tons of money , moving their lives and time to effect local elections in a state they don't live in?
 

Peace

macrumors Core
Apr 1, 2005
19,467
3,833
Space--The ONLY Frontier
Just for discussion sake, what if a group of Republicans from very red states were move to Wisconsin 10 days before the general election. Let's say that they all went to the 2nd, 3rd or 4th district.

Wisconsin only has a 10 day residency with no voter identification required.
Please change this post considering it is not accurate.
 

Southern Dad

macrumors 68000
Original poster
May 23, 2010
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Shady Dale, Georgia
Here is the real question.

Why would normal people piss away tons of money , moving their lives and time to effect local elections in a state they don't live in?
What if it could change the balance of the House or Senate... Or even a Presidential race? Think about it. OWS took up residency in a park. Some states have Laws to Make it Easier for the Homeless to Vote, could these laws be used by a group to win an election? The reason I went with Wisconsin is that they allow registration at the polls. No one would know it was coming until the ballots were being cast.

This is just conversation... I'm not moving... (Relax, NSA)

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Please change this post considering it is not accurate.
Corrected... But there are states with less than 28 day requirements.
 

Michael Goff

Suspended
Jul 5, 2012
13,262
7,298
What if it could change the balance of the House or Senate... Or even a Presidential race? Think about it. OWS took up residency in a park. Some states have Laws to Make it Easier for the Homeless to Vote, could these laws be used by a group to win an election? The reason I went with Wisconsin is that they allow registration at the polls. No one would know it was coming until the ballots were being cast.

This is just conversation... I'm not moving... (Relax, NSA)

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Corrected... But there are states with less than 28 day requirements.
And they wouldn't be able to vote somewhere else. It'd be crooked, but it would be taking from one election to go to another.
 

G51989

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Feb 25, 2012
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NYC NY/Pittsburgh PA
What if it could change the balance of the House or Senate... Or even a Presidential race? Think about it. OWS took up residency in a park. Some states have Laws to Make it Easier for the Homeless to Vote, could these laws be used by a group to win an election? The reason I went with Wisconsin is that they allow registration at the polls. No one would know it was coming until the ballots were being cast.

This is just conversation... I'm not moving... (Relax, NSA)



You do make a point, I suppose if some people were willing to go that far to move to Wisconsin ( best flyover state in the country btw, love it there ), then yes they could that. Tho as soon as everyone left the day after election day, questions may come up.

This would really only work in low population states as well. And you would still need tens of thousands of people.
 

Southern Dad

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There are people who spend millions if not billions of dollars to win elections. You had a group of people that camped out in Zuccotti Park long enough to establish residency. Yes, they would not be able to vote in their actual home states because they would have legally moved but their home state would be already solid for their party.

New Hampshire would have been ripe for it but it now has a Voter ID requirement would makes it a little more difficult. Wisconsin doesn't require ID.
 

bradl

macrumors 601
Jun 16, 2008
4,006
11,823
Voter Photo ID Law Information

Registration and Voting

I apologize, it appears that they have a 28 day requirement now. This link is wrong or out of date but still a 28 day plan to steal and election?

Proof of residency can be a simple lease. One person rents a room to a few dozen... They allow registration on election day.

----------



Yes, a group of Democrats could do the same thing. I was making an example. Your third point is questionable. Why do they have to stay after the election? How long would they have to stay?
Because if you bump up the numbers just to vote in an election, and it is discovered that it was done in that manner, you are committing voter fraud, causing that entire election to be thrown out. That idea, which last I've checked, is illegal, and against the premise of your thread.

BL.
 

Southern Dad

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Original poster
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Shady Dale, Georgia
Because if you bump up the numbers just to vote in an election, and it is discovered that it was done in that manner, you are committing voter fraud, causing that entire election to be thrown out. That idea, which last I've checked, is illegal, and against the premise of your thread.

BL.
Hold on, how is it voter fraud if they do it within the law? They legally live there the required number of days to establish residency and cast a ballot? The law says that you have to live there for 28 days, present a current lease or paycheck on election day to cast a ballot. Does the laws say how many days you have to stay after the election?


I'm a homeless person
Wisconsin’s election law embodies a commitment to facilitate voting for all qualified individuals, including those who happen to be homeless at the time of the election.

If you are homeless, you may use a letter from a shelter or other organization providing services to the homeless as proof of residence when registering to vote. The G.A.B. has provided a sample letter at the link below.

It is essential that all qualified Wisconsin electors be provided with the opportunity to help choose the elected governmental representatives who develop and implement policies that affect them.
 

jknight8907

macrumors 6502a
Jun 14, 2004
799
42
Hudson Valley NY
Why go through the expense and logistics of physically moving people when you can simply alter some closed and proprietary software code and get away clean?

It's been done, in your state, and many others.

For those that would welcome a Banana Republic, it is time to celebrate, cause the U.S. of A. is there. :)
The US is a country dependent on exporting a limited-resource product? Wow.

Perhaps you should learn what a banana republic is.
 

G51989

macrumors 68030
Feb 25, 2012
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The US is a country dependent on exporting a limited-resource product? Wow.

Perhaps you should learn what a banana republic is.
The US is not a Banana Republic, that is correct.

Tho it does share some things in common, such as a largest improvised working class, shrinking middle class, and is run by a Plutocracy of elites.

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Hold on, how is it voter fraud if they do it within the law? They legally live there the required number of days to establish residency and cast a ballot? The law says that you have to live there for 28 days, present a current lease or paycheck on election day to cast a ballot. Does the laws say how many days you have to stay after the election?
Yes, they have legally lived there long enough. However if it is found out that 50,000 people moved into a random district, then moved out the next day. Courts could easily find a reason to do another election.
 

Southern Dad

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Original poster
May 23, 2010
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Yes, they have legally lived there long enough. However if it is found out that 50,000 people moved into a random district, then moved out the next day. Courts could easily find a reason to do another election.
But that is what I question. If they legally met the requirements of residence of the state, I really don't see the crime.
 

G51989

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Feb 25, 2012
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But that is what I question. If they legally met the requirements of residence of the state, I really don't see the crime.
You might not, but the legal system and people of Wisconsin might feel very differently, How would you feel if tons of democrats came to change your election? find a legal reason for voter fraud from a 3rd party ( that 3rd party being outsiders coming in to ruin their election ) and redo the election. And the legal system is rarely as black and white as you think it is.
 

Southern Dad

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Original poster
May 23, 2010
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Shady Dale, Georgia
You might not, but the legal system and people of Wisconsin might feel very differently, How would you feel if tons of democrats came to change your election? find a legal reason for voter fraud from a 3rd party ( that 3rd party being outsiders coming in to ruin their election ) and redo the election. And the legal system is rarely as black and white as you think it is.
I was using Wisconsin as an example. Either party could do it if the state's laws were lax enough to allow it. WI doesn't require ID, and allows registration on election day. Not many states do that.
 

G51989

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Feb 25, 2012
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I was using Wisconsin as an example. Either party could do it if the state's laws were lax enough to allow it. WI doesn't require ID, and allows registration on election day. Not many states do that.
Yes, but the ideal you described, more than likely would fall under voter fraud by a 3rd party and thrown out once it is discovered, you can stretch the terms of law pretty far
 

Southern Dad

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Yes, but the ideal you described, more than likely would fall under voter fraud by a 3rd party and thrown out once it is discovered, you can stretch the terms of law pretty far
What if it wasn't even hidden? After all, at 27 days prior to the election there would be nothing that could be done about it. Too short of a time period to change the law.
 

G51989

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Feb 25, 2012
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NYC NY/Pittsburgh PA
What if it wasn't even hidden? After all, at 27 days prior to the election there would be nothing that could be done about it. Too short of a time period to change the law.
They don't have to change the law, if the people of Wisconsin come together, and don't want outsiders running their state, and the the courts agree. The courts will find a way to throw out the election and have another one. The legal system is not nearly as black and white as you think it is.

Not about changint the law, its just about throwing out the election under voter fraud.

And, even if the decision was barely legal, its not like the people of Wisconsin would care, they wouldn't be to keep on outsiders telling them how to do things.
 

Southern Dad

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Original poster
May 23, 2010
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Shady Dale, Georgia
They don't have to change the law, if the people of Wisconsin come together, and don't want outsiders running their state, and the the courts agree. The courts will find a way to throw out the election and have another one. The legal system is not nearly as black and white as you think it is.

Not about changint the law, its just about throwing out the election under voter fraud.

And, even if the decision was barely legal, its not like the people of Wisconsin would care, they wouldn't be to keep on outsiders telling them how to do things.
I just believe that it is an interesting premise using a state's own laws to change it. The amount of money spent on elections, make this something that could happen, somewhere.
 

G51989

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Feb 25, 2012
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I just believe that it is an interesting premise using a state's own laws to change it. The amount of money spent on elections, make this something that could happen, somewhere.
Yes it could, it could be TRIED.

And it is an interesting thought.

But it just couldn't be tried in this way, it would be eaisly found out and struck down by the state courts, and a new election would be held.

It would also probably spawn tons of new election laws and residency laws in that state.

There are better ways at ruining states.

Plus, Wisconsin has some of the best cheese in the world, Republicans only like Cheeze wiz! ;) ( Sarcasm ), so they couldn't stand 10 days in a place with good food and cheese.
 

Southern Dad

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Original poster
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Shady Dale, Georgia
Yes it could, it could be TRIED.

And it is an interesting thought.

But it just couldn't be tried in this way, it would be eaisly found out and struck down by the state courts, and a new election would be held.

It would also probably spawn tons of new election laws and residency laws in that state.

There are better ways at ruining states.

Plus, Wisconsin has some of the best cheese in the world, Republicans only like Cheeze wiz! ;) ( Sarcasm ), so they couldn't stand 10 days in a place with good food and cheese.
That and the elections are in November... It's cold in Wisconsin in November. Did you know that two states allow convicted felons to vote, while serving time in prison? Think of what that could do if they voted en masse? Felon Vote Laws by State. ME and VT