Stereoscopic Displays?

arn

macrumors god
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Apr 9, 2001
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In looking back over previous rumors, and exploring the winners and the losers, it's interesting to find out the accuracy of previous rumors.

I can't credit the 10gig iPod to any one particular source, as it's like saying "there will be faster Macs"...

However... one item which made the MacWorld San Francisco Rumor Roundup was this tidbit from a Jan 3, 2002 EETimes article:

In addition to the desktops, Apple is expected to roll out a new high-end desktop LCD monitor. The existing 22-inch Apple Cinema Display, which sports a 1,600 x 1,024 resolution, will be superceded by a model with a 2,048 x 1,280 display.

The new screen's exact size has not been made public, but analyst Doherty said "it's bigger than an HDTV." Though something of a glamour product, the display is expected to find use in Apple's traditional publishing markets as a monitor suitable for checking color matching on two simultaneously displayed 11 x 17 inch pages.


While this is nice to realize after the fact... it may bring some further credibility to other information found in the article:

Separately, Apple is said to have other flat-panel technologies cooking in the labs, including stereoscopic displays.

Stereoscopic displays would presumably simulate 3d/VR environments. A bit unique for the consumer market... but an interesting area of research for Apple.
 

Mr. Anderson

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Nov 1, 2001
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Very Interesting Article

Here's a tidbit from that article

'The company is also expected to offer dual processor versions of the iMac for the first time, though those models might not be unveiled until an event in Tokyo later this year'

Wow! That sort of brings the iMac upto desktop power if they ever do that. I can't imagine this ever happening without a G5 being available.
 

arn

macrumors god
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Re: Very Interesting Article

Originally posted by dukestreet
Here's a tidbit from that article

'The company is also expected to offer dual processor versions of the iMac for the first time, though those models might not be unveiled until an event in Tokyo later this year'

Wow! That sort of brings the iMac upto desktop power if they ever do that. I can't imagine this ever happening without a G5 being available.
This is far less likely since adding a dual processor would increase the production cost of the iMac... and they are already battling prices.

arn
 

3G4N

macrumors regular
Jan 24, 2002
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3rd star to the right
s g i

damnit, Apple should just buy SGI!!

(i admittedly haven't looked at the legal and biz small print, but...)

They have so much research thrown into technologies
such as RT 3D visualization, VR, stereoscopic googles,
as well as many others in the visualization arena.

Apple could use the HW guys for processor, mobos, and grx.
Can you say "OpenGL gurus". I'm sure Apple could put their
server guys to use (just not server marketing people).

Give a little thanks, and make a small sacrifice to the OpenSource
gods. Take a bunch of the code in IRIX and throw it into Darwin.
(sure, easier said than done...)

10.2 is rumored to have IRIX-like minimized window-boxes (that
you pull out of the dock).

And of course, buying SGI would really help out when the Maya
team comes on board Apple ; )
 

AmbitiousLemon

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it was my understanding (perhaps my erroneous understanding so correct me if im wrong) that sterioscopic monitors would deliver photorealism not vr or 3d. maybe im getting all this ne tsuff mixed up but isnt the new ibm lcd monitor described as stereoscopic. the one with the super resolution that gives photorealistic displays. anyone got all of this straight, cuz im gettin' a bit confused.
 

arn

macrumors god
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Originally posted by AmbitiousLemon
it was my understanding (perhaps my erroneous understanding so correct me if im wrong) that sterioscopic monitors would deliver photorealism not vr or 3d. maybe im getting all this ne tsuff mixed up but isnt the new ibm lcd monitor described as stereoscopic. the one with the super resolution that gives photorealistic displays. anyone got all of this straight, cuz im gettin' a bit confused.
AmbitiousLemon...

you very well may be right... I have no other info than that in the article...

let me know... in my research of stereoscopic displays it seems it had to do with 3d displays.

arn
 

mgescuro

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Feb 19, 2002
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Well, if the "Stereoscopic" display will display in 3d, that would probably be an added bonus for the Biotech industry, espeically when modelling organic molecules. This "may" be the case, since we have seen Apple pushing harder into the Biotech world in recent months.

And if the "Stereoscopic" display will display more photorealistic images.... well, doesn't IBM already have a new type of LCD that's both brighter and sharper than the high-end LCD's of today?? Also, isn't IBM and Kodak working on something similar, but for PDA's?

Who knows.... but I'm sure the technology is about 3-5 years away!
 

AmbitiousLemon

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hey i just took a trip on over to ibm.com to alleviate my "mixedupedness"

looks liek i was wrong again (seems ive been doing that a lot lately)

stereoscopic displays are exactly as arn described. 3d. ibm has 3 or 4 white papers on these and they work by using two displays actually. one for the left eye and one for the right eye. the user wears a goggles head piece that forces each eye to see only one of teh displays. so each image is integrated by the user's brain into a 3d image much the same way we experience 3d in the real world (each eye sees from its own perspective). these displays are hooked uyp to large servers because of the processing power involved in creating these two perspectives. if any of you have seen one of the 3d imax films, guess what... that was stereoscopic vision just as i described. so although this sound srather experimental it is being used.

and the photorealistic monitor i was getting confused with. its is here: http://www-3.ibm.com/software/ebusiness/innovations/roentgen_middle_yes.html
and is simply (as if such a huge engineering feat were simple) a monitor with very high resolution... so high it creates photorealistic images.
 

3G4N

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Jan 24, 2002
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3rd star to the right
fancy glasses

there's three ways I know of how stereoscopic vision is viewed
using glasses...

1) the classic red/blue or red/green glasses. the different
color channels are used from two angles simulating the angle
of your eyes. Almost as cheap as paper.

2) glasses with opaque liquid crystal that alternately blocks
the vision of each eye, while showing the appropriate image view
for that eye. Each lense flickers at about 30 fps. Needs a cable
attached to the projector or computer to coordinate flickering
with the projecting (see: CrystalEyes (or some alternate spelling))
Expensive.

3) while wearing polarized glasses, two images are projected,
each with a different polarity to match the proper eye. They use
this at the Universal Studios Terminator3D attraction.
About as expensive as a pair of $9.95 AmberVision fishin' sunglasses.


anyone know how to do it without glasses?
 

Pepzhez

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Jan 23, 2002
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There is a very effective way to project film in 3-D without requiring the use of glasses: Stereokino, a lenticular stereoscopic system invented in the Soviet Union in the 1940's. It uses a complex ribbed glass screen to reflect the left and right images into the viewers' eyes. It is by far the best 3-D projection system ever devised, and, as far as I know, is still used today in Russia.

Obviously, it can only work by means of projection, so forget about incorporating the idea into video monitors.
 

arn

macrumors god
Original poster
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Apr 9, 2001
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Originally posted by Duder
www.apple.com go there to see it is 23" nothing special but it is HD
yes... we are aware of that... but the article linked discusses the stereoscopic displays

arn
 

Kela

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May 12, 2001
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Apple will instead work on LCD screens that are an inch big and fit over the eye (like glasses) creating an image which could make the user think he/she is viewing TV screen like 50 inches big!! I see this as apples future.
 

mymemory

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May 9, 2001
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Originally posted by Kela
Apple will instead work on LCD screens that are an inch big and fit over the eye (like glasses) creating an image which could make the user think he/she is viewing TV screen like 50 inches big!! I see this as apples future.

Kela is back again.

Kela, I have seen/test helmets and glases that wants to give you the impression of "inmersion" because that is the way is called, and all they do is getting disyer (sorry about ths spelling) and you can not use the for more than 8 minutes because they are way too bright for the human eye.

That technology is not comerciable for Apple.
 

MacHack

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Mar 22, 2002
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OLED Screens for Stereoscopic Googles

OLED displays made me think of stereoscopic goggle when I first heard of them. They are capable of VERY high resolution, relatively inexpensive and for extra cool viewing, they don't need to be flat. A pair of wrap-around, virtual viewing, stereoscopic, wonder goggles might be in Apple's labs today. They would make viewing DVD's awesome on the road (even in boring 2D). But 3D gaming or movies would be mind blowing.
Also, I really don't think Apple would waste their time combining two views of video and then seperating them with funky filtered glasses. They would just diplay the two seperate views on two seperate displays using cool new technology (OLED) with a cool pair of glasses/goggles.
But I'm just a hack, what do you think?
 

Mr. Anderson

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Nov 1, 2001
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OLED

OLED will be used in the next gen of displays. Not only are they hi res, they're flexible. Imagine being able to roll up your 30" display? They do this by getting rid of the glass/light layer, where instead the light source for the colors are in the semiconductor.

Check the article

http://www.emagin.com/oledpri.htm

It will be a while before we see this in large, display size format though. But they're going in cell phones, backs of digital cameras, etc. right now.
 

MacHack

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Mar 22, 2002
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Another OLED Info LINK

This talks about when the plants will be up and running to make the first OLEDs.

http://www.kodak.com/country/US/en/corp/display/currentAnnounce.jhtml

Today's announcement represents the next step in the companies' joint development of OLED technology: the manufacture and sale of active-matrix OLED displays. Beginning with a pilot facility in early 2002 and graduating to a full production facility in early 2003, the SK Display Corporation will offer the world's first full-scale manufacturing facility dedicated to full-color, active-matrix OLED displays.

You don't need big displays for "gogglevision", but I'm not sure these first displays will be ideal.
 

Sayer

macrumors 6502a
Jan 4, 2002
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Stereoscopic possible

OpenGL apparently has support for stereoscopic viewing built in. You do need a video card with a lot of memory (typ. a dual-head card since it has twice the VRAM) to store essentially two separate full size screen images that are offset from each other slightly.

A special pair of glasses creates the 3D affect without a special display or a special display with lenticular lenses generates the pseudo-3D effect from the offset images. Anyone in their late 20's prolly remembers the books for kids that had a lenticular lens 3D effect on the cover (I do anyway).

I have seen this particular issue covered in a graphics mag a few issues back (Computer Graphics World) without any mention of Mac OS X support or details on the general OpenGL support for it. Mostly just a product review of the displays themselves rather than anything technical. Its getting quite good so I read.

And BTW I did say there would definately be a 10 gig. iPod as told to me by someone who works at Apple and is involved with the iPod. I am disappointed by the price though, I withehld getting one thinking it would at least be more affordable. The margins need not be 20-30% on EVERYTHING Apple! Geeze!

Starting to remind me of the nearly $200 ADB keyboard era.
 

blakespot

Administrator
Jun 4, 2000
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I predict now that the time is neigh for us to finally put in our hands a 1"x1" cube. That cube will store more information than the Library of Congress.

Yes, the dawn of a new storage age is upon us. Two words...

Holographic Memory.



blakespot
 

mischief

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Aug 1, 2001
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Santa Cruz Ca
I can confirm this one........

This is one of the products slated for the next 24 months. It certainly explains Apple's current fascination with dual-monitor cards.

I have no idea how Apple intends to pull this off at any reasonable cost but the impression I got was that they were working on giving the OS "depth" not working on making images "pop out".

There is a rumor around the Valley to this effect and my own sources confirm it.

It would explain why Apple is using Dual Cards, why OS X's top layers are flawed and why Apple is taking so long to go up a Gen in processor. All these things would have to change to accommodate such an interesting turn of events.:D
 

AmbitiousLemon

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Nov 28, 2001
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down in Fraggle Rock
Re: OLED

Originally posted by dukestreet
OLED will be used in the next gen of displays. Not only are they hi res, they're flexible. Imagine being able to roll up your 30" display? They do this by getting rid of the glass/light layer, where instead the light source for the colors are in the semiconductor.

Check the article

http://www.emagin.com/oledpri.htm

It will be a while before we see this in large, display size format though. But they're going in cell phones, backs of digital cameras, etc. right now.
ok now being able to roll up your lcd. now thats cool. all thiis 3d stuff seems a bit far out, just cant see people accepting it any time soon, but rollable views could give portable users bigger screens while keeping portability.

oooh imagine the apple pda with a rollable screen (just had to mention that you know)
 

3G4N

macrumors regular
Jan 24, 2002
123
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3rd star to the right
Kela wrote:
>Apple will instead work on LCD screens that are an inch big
>and fit over the eye (like glasses) creating an image which
>could make the user think he/she is viewing TV screen like
>50 inches big!! I see this as apples future.

Just like that IBM commercial, with the guy in an italian courtyard.

My friend was a proj manager (recently laid off) for a company
that was researching and developing these. He said they were
about 2 years from being a viable commercial product (before 9/11).
They had 1024x768 resolution, and were about a sq inch.
They use two polarized LEDs for each pixel, which, depending on the
elec. current running through them, would rotate at a slight angle
to each other, producing colored light of a particular frequency.
I'll save you the cool yet lengthy physics lecture... : )


mischief wrote:
>I have no idea how Apple intends to pull this off at any
>reasonable cost but the impression I got was that they were
>working on giving the OS "depth" not working on making
>images "pop out".

I remember seeing a short video, back in ...'97? Hazy... One of the
mac UI experts saying that they had advanced past the classic mac UI
(no pun), and he was talking more about 3D environments, past flat
windows. He talked a bit about a "rolo-dex" type file navigation;
and i recall him talking about a "deep" desktop, or a desktop with
more depth; and putting more things at the edges of the screen (dock?) for
easy mouse target aquisition (a border where no matter how much you
move your mouse, there it is - one of the reasons why the mac has *one*
menu at the top, with the Apple Menu Items, and currently running apps
accessible via the corners - easily accessed by small or quick gestural mouse movements.) He was talking like MacOS 7 or 8 was sooo uncool, pasée,
outdated, and old... In desperate need of revamping.


fwiw