Stimulus Bill Cut

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by XnavxeMiyyep, Feb 8, 2009.

  1. XnavxeMiyyep macrumors 65816

    XnavxeMiyyep

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2003
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    Washington
    #1
    http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/02/07/stimulus.cuts/index.html

    Some things that got completely cut:

    Compromise - Two sides working together to guarantee that an poorly implemented, improper solution is reached! Who needs improved internet infrastructure or improved education? Also, construction jobs for that matter!

    Some things that only got reduced:

    I feel safer already! :rolleyes:
     
  2. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #2
    Yep, we're screwed.

    The GOP is doing everything they can to ensure that this bill provides as little actual stimulus as possible so they can blame the Democrats in 2010. My guess is that they will demand (and receive) tons of concessions from the Democrats that will render the stimulus nothing more than a giant tax giveaway that doesn't stimulate anything, then vote against it anyway.

    Sadly, the Democrats seem willing to allow this to happen.
     
  3. Dont Hurt Me macrumors 603

    Dont Hurt Me

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    #3
    In this bill who got the biggest Pot? What we need to stimulate jobs here in the U.S. is to stop encouraging made in China. What industry do we have that hasnt been sent to China? Burger building is about it. A country that doesnt make anything is what we are becoming thanks to the hard work of our congress.

    I dont see much in this Bill to encourage made in the U.S.A.
     
  4. it5five macrumors 65816

    it5five

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    #4
    And how much tax cuts were put in this thing? 300 billion? What a joke.
     
  5. Desertrat macrumors newbie

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    Jul 4, 2003
    Location:
    Terlingua, Texas
    #5
    I don't rail against cuts until I read the fine print about what would have been done with the money that was cut.

    For example--IIRC it's Minnesota--it is proposed to build some fifteen new schools. The problem is that the student population is in noticeable decline. It might be, of course, that some old schools need to be replaced. But I'd want some review of locational need before proceeding.

    Q: Would expansion of broadband create all that many new jobs? In what manner?

    Q: How does "school nutrition" create new jobs now? Save jobs now? Seems to me that it has little or nothing to do with jobs, regardless of desirability.

    Anecdote: Friday, driving along browsing across the AM dial, I heard some talk radio call-in person complain that money for food stamps had been cut from the bill. Now, I've no problem with money for food stamps, but that's an item for the regular budget, not to be in a Stimulus Package. In that locale, it's the same as pork.

    And regardless of what's in or not in, there will only be a palliative effect for the short term, before the additional deficit and monetizing of debt jacks up consumer price inflation.

    But, like Cheney said, "Deficits don't matter." :D:D:D Obama agrees.

    'Rat
     
  6. iAthena macrumors regular

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    Jan 22, 2008
    Location:
    USA
    #6
    I still can't figure out this whole money for schools thing. We have schools that are 100 years old that with the exception of a new boiler, some updated wiring, etc. aren't "crumbling". Also, we actually have a growing population of gradeschool students and for some reason our local politicians are under the misconception that we have to pay for it locally.

    I'm going to have to call and write them to explain that local schools are really the responsibility of the federal government. Then my property taxes can go down to where they should be.
     
  7. Sdashiki macrumors 68040

    Sdashiki

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    #7
    "building schools" doesnt actually mean physically breaking new ground on new buildings.

    i hope you arent of the mindset that money in education is a BAD thing, cuz it never is.

    when the kid behind the McDeez counter cant use the register properly because he got a 3rd class public education in your district, and you get angry at his stupidity, youll have no one to blame but yourself because you didnt have any kids in school, why should you have to pay for local public education!? Not my problem.

    We are living in a society, dont you want to be a part of it?
     
  8. iGary Guest

    iGary

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    Randy's House
    #8
    About $275 billion of this thing is tax cuts FWIW.

    I never like seeing school lunch/breakfast programs messed with. For some kids, it's the only two meals they get a day.

    I'd like to see some tax credits/breaks for people trying to go back to school and get their degrees. Our state is killing people with their tuition hikes.
     
  9. iAthena macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2008
    Location:
    USA
    #9
    The words "building" and "construction" sure sound like breaking ground to me.

    I don't want to hear the "for the children" argument. We spend thousands per kid, throw computers, free breakfast, free lunch and hundreds of benefits at them and they still can't read or perform math as well as a frontier kid in the nineteenth century.

    My point was that our local governments are soaking us for the price of schools and then we hear that the federal government does too. Either way, it shouldn't be both.

    Also, if the stimulus package is really geared to creating jobs, it should have a provision for just paying the salaries for 20,000 teachers. Not every job created should be in the construction sector.
     
  10. fivepoint macrumors 65816

    fivepoint

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    #10
    Good luck with that.
     
  11. mrkramer macrumors 603

    mrkramer

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    #11
    Yes it is when they are just wasting the money that they already have. throwing more money at schools right now is a huge waste since everything we have in there right now is already being spent somewhere and not improving education anymore than before their last raise. if we really want to improve education we need to make it easier to fire bad teachers not throw more money at them.
     
  12. fivepoint macrumors 65816

    fivepoint

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    #12
    +1

    And make it easy to promote/give raises to the good ones.

    Before anyone asks... It's easy, through multi-tier evaluations... peer review, superior review, student review, standardized test review, etc. They only reason this isn't done now is because the liberal education bureaucracy and teachers' unions support the status quo. They stand against improving the system because these improvements mean less money for their union and more accountability for employees.

    For the record... my wife is a K-5 teacher.
     
  13. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    Colly-fornia
    #13
    That is a typical problem that is tied to the whole city/suburb issue. Communities often are closing existing schools in areas where the cost of housing has gone way up, and having to build new facilities in the areas where housing costs are low. Why? Because young families cannot afford to live where the schools already exist, so they move to areas where school facilities are in short supply.

    You can't stop people from moving to where housing is cheap, and a certain level of education is mandated by law, so what do you suggest we do?

    Well, in the short term it creates jobs because you need an army of folks out there installing the towers or fiber optics or whatever technology they settle on as a means of distribution. In the longer term, you create jobs by allowing rural folks the same opportunity to work from home that urban dwellers get, at the same cost. Let's face it, broadband access is a necessity for most businesses.

    A lot of the schools around here are going to be letting their lunchroom staff go as a way of preserving the actual meals. Additional funding here will save jobs.

    IIRC, that's *extra* food stamp money, not the normal stuff that goes in the regular budget. And I don't understand how something can be pork if funded under the "regular budget", yet it's pork if it's funded in a stimulus package? It's either pork, or it isn't. Wasteful spending is not situationally-dependent. You really need to stop getting these pearls of wisdom off the AM radio dial. Besides, we all know who you're talking about...

    But the Fed has the tools to deal with that. Raise interest rates, curb inflation. The issue is, they don't have the tools to deal with the current situation. Normally they would cut rates to stimulate the economy. But rates are nearly zero, so that arrow is no longer in the quiver.

    Indeed. So if we're all agreed that deficits don't matter, why all the caterwauling from the right? Could it be that deficits only matter when a Democrat runs them up? There certainly hasn't been much of an outcry anytime a Republican has done it. :D:D:D

    You have no idea what school construction involves. When you do, you can speak authoritatively on the topic. Until then, I would suggest you educate yourself on the topic before spouting this nonsense.

    Do you have any idea what it takes just to put "a new boiler" in place? I didn't think so.

    Knock yourself out. Just remember, if local schools are really the responsibility of the federal government, then I don't want to hear any complaining when you don't agree with the curriculum and want your local school board to have some kind of say.

    Again, you have no idea what you are talking about. I just spent about $10 million dollars in "building" and "construction" at one school (about 60 year old), and not one cent of it went to breaking new ground.

    Link please. This smacks of propaganda.

    IT'S ALREADY BOTH!!! And a third entity too -- the state. Funding is available from all three sources, most often in a combined fashion, and is put together to cover the costs. It's not like this is something new, pulled out of some black-as-night liberal wishbag.

    Agreed. Around here, many districts are ready to cut several years worth of new hires this fall. The result will be to further burden the remaining teachers with the same number of students as before. You can cut teachers, but you can't cut students. We should be making sure that these teachers (and custodial workers too) aren't out of a job come June.

    I would love to see tenure traded for merit pay. Yes, it's possible. But you'll have to be willing to pay teachers what they are worth. The only reason this isn't done is because the conservative administrative bureaucracy and anti-worker groups would never support such government spending. They stand against improving the system because these improvements mean less money for their pet pork projects and the fear that such accountability might spread to them as well.

    For the record... my wife is a high school teacher.
     
  14. Desertrat macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2003
    Location:
    Terlingua, Texas
    #14
    mac, as long as we're being sold the idea that it's "stimulus", anything that's not job-related is the same as pork. It doesn't belong in this particular bill.

    The Feds CAN'T raise interest rates. If they do, the whole deal shuts down even worse than at present. The credit crunch would get "even worster". They're already alarmed by the rising interest rates in the private sector, even though they've tried to keep lending rates lower than market. Why the rise? Risk avoidance, simplest put.

    The private sector has some $6 trillion to work through, to somehow pay off. No matter what the feds do, we're in trouble until that debt is cleared. And the feds don't have the line of credit to hand it out in the ongoing stimulus methodology that's being attempted. The only way it can be paid off is for the dollar to dive downward in buying power or relative worth or whatever terminolgy is chosen. IOW, consumer price inflation during a time of a stagnant economy. Mostly, however, in food, since production inputs are already out of control. Food's gotta be bought, whether or not folks avoid cars and washing machines and such.

    My Cheney comment was a snicker at how folks took his comment out of context and yowled and howled in this forum--but now we're calm, cool and collected about a deficit many times larger. On this forum, generally, there's more name-calling against Republicans than against Democrats, for the same sorts of statements or actions. And, mac, you're a ring-leader.
     
  15. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    Apr 24, 2003
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    Colly-fornia
    #15
    Pork is pork, no matter where it resides.

    The Fed CAN raise interest rates. Are you denying that they have the power?

    They can certainly do so if, as you claim, inflation starts running rampant. It's generally the first weapon deployed against inflation, just as cutting rates is generally the first weapon deployed against a weakening economy.

    Come on 'Rat, you're a smart fellow. The value of the dollar has plummeted for years now. Sounding that particular alarm suddenly now that a Democrat is in office smacks of playing politics.

    Please 'Rat, spare us. Or do I need to put together another retrospective of your name-calling and invective?

    We could start with the whole "I'll put my intelligence and work ethic against his any day", if you would like?

    Or we could resurrect the names you've called Arianna Huffington, Diane Feinstein, Henry Waxman...

    Really, you don't want to go there. You're just as guilty -- if not more-- than I am. Unlike you; however, I am not hypocritical enough to then get up on my high horse and point my fingers at others.
     

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