From Steve's interview with Time:
Wow. Great to see he feels so strongly about freedom for consumers...
Wow. Great to see he feels so strongly about freedom for consumers...
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Strong words from SJ
- Thread starter cosmicsoftceo
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Every keynote and product launch I've ever seen, he always makes a point of recognizing and thanking the designers and engineers.
What other company gives their head of product design such star billing? I mean, Sony designs great looking products, but do you know who the designer or creative director is.
(then again, maybe he's famous in Japan)
Originally posted by lmalave
What other company gives their head of product design such star billing? I mean, Sony designs great looking products, but do you know who the designer or creative director is.
(then again, maybe he's famous in Japan)
I guess that at the sony rumors forum, people know this. If there is such a forum for sony..
you've gotta be kidding...i bet he fires more people in one week than he thanks at macworld and wwdc keynotes in a year.
what's the big deal? LethalWolfe got it right. sure Steve Jobs gets the credit for most things, but give him a break. if anything goes wrong, then he has t deal with that as well.
steve jobs has always been a "potty" mouth as i hear many people say. he has a tendency to make fun of people, if i remember right he dissed some peoples music on the music store. that keynote was almost a disaster when peters itunes almost didnt show up. steve can take credit, he started the company, woz left and that was his problem, now steve is the head guy. sometimes i wonder if steve knows how to work on the ocmputers, like if his powerbook breaks if he can just replace the logicboard. who cares though. steve is cool and i like his style, but with his work atmosphere is the reason i would never want to work for apple, i dont want to have anything to do with that. you have to be high up there till you start sporting good pay and free computers.
iJon
iJon
that is 100% true. anyway, about the thing that he said...
that's kinda funny. you don't usually see a big CEO going around bashing internet services like this.
IT'S AWSOME!
that's true.people know about bill gates partially because of all the crap micro$ux was getting back in the day. (ant-trust lawsuits and what-not)
some people (us) know him because he is a major part of apple, and basically i am going to say "the big cheese" at apple.
i'd have to say that Steve Jobs really is big, as in the big cheese.
now that i come to think of it as well, it is awesome that he was ripping into another company/online service like that!! you don't get to see that too often!
now that i come to think of it as well, it is awesome that he was ripping into another company/online service like that!! you don't get to see that too often!
Just because SJ may (or may not) fire a ton of people doesn't have anything to do with whether he takes credit for everything Apple comes out with. I don't see how the two issues are related.
Pirates of Silicon Valley
I think some of you have watched 'Pirates of Silicon Valley' to much. iJon, where do you get your infomation from? please tell me its the previously mentioned movie, that would just be absolutely hillarious.
~'tair
I think some of you have watched 'Pirates of Silicon Valley' to much. iJon, where do you get your infomation from? please tell me its the previously mentioned movie, that would just be absolutely hillarious.
~'tair
Re: Pirates of Silicon Valley
iJon
i have friends who work for apple, i have friends who have been in meetings and have met with steve with business issues, im not basin my info on a movie. they tell me he is hardass. So yes i have watched that movie, but I dont base my info on it.
iJon
I know this is petty and nitpicky
For what its worth, to beg the question as used here:
"then one begs the question - is he really that big???"
is used incorrectly. To beg the question means to avoid the question. As in Jamie begged out of dinner, as in skipped out of.
Gid
For what its worth, to beg the question as used here:
"then one begs the question - is he really that big???"
is used incorrectly. To beg the question means to avoid the question. As in Jamie begged out of dinner, as in skipped out of.
Gid
Re: I know this is petty and nitpicky
For all my life, I have never heard beg been used in any other context outside of of "to beg" or "to beg the question." I have seen benixau's usage of the phrase over and over, time and again.
Besides, it's an idiom that changes at the decision of society.
For all my life, I have never heard beg been used in any other context outside of of "to beg" or "to beg the question." I have seen benixau's usage of the phrase over and over, time and again.
Besides, it's an idiom that changes at the decision of society.
Yes, I guess thats true
" For all my life, I have never heard beg been used in any other context outside of of "to beg" or "to beg the question." I have seen benixau's usage of the phrase over and over, time and again.
Besides, it's an idiom that changes at the decision of society."
Yes, you're absolutely right, idoms do change. Howver, this is a classic idiom, like run it up the flag pole, or Bob's youre uncle and it is widely used in literature and easily misunderstood. I apologize for bringing it up. Its just funny becuse I think that in some cases we think that its being used in the way that you think benixau is using it when it is actually being used in the other way. In fact, benixau may mean it the "classic way" like "that really avoids the central question as to whether or not SJ is actually that important."
There is absolutely no question about whether people misue - ot mis read ot misunderstand the expression - they do. And this isn't grammar or literature rumors forum. I don't come to this forum to discuss grammar, I come to learn about computers, I just thought that since I am a writer and a word lover and have learned much from this site about computers, I would share something that I actually know something about.
Yours,
Gid
" For all my life, I have never heard beg been used in any other context outside of of "to beg" or "to beg the question." I have seen benixau's usage of the phrase over and over, time and again.
Besides, it's an idiom that changes at the decision of society."
Yes, you're absolutely right, idoms do change. Howver, this is a classic idiom, like run it up the flag pole, or Bob's youre uncle and it is widely used in literature and easily misunderstood. I apologize for bringing it up. Its just funny becuse I think that in some cases we think that its being used in the way that you think benixau is using it when it is actually being used in the other way. In fact, benixau may mean it the "classic way" like "that really avoids the central question as to whether or not SJ is actually that important."
There is absolutely no question about whether people misue - ot mis read ot misunderstand the expression - they do. And this isn't grammar or literature rumors forum. I don't come to this forum to discuss grammar, I come to learn about computers, I just thought that since I am a writer and a word lover and have learned much from this site about computers, I would share something that I actually know something about.
Yours,
Gid
Well, aside from our thread-jacking, yes, the English language has been abused over the years.
But that's what one gets with a communications explosion and world-wide shift to one language (for all effects and purposes, English is the world language).
Back to the Steve Jobs issue....
What's wrong with Steve using "vulgar" language to name his opponents? Apple is dealing with the music industry now, and being "hip" is everything (music is, afterall, simply an extension of society's flavors). Therefore, even if Steve Jobs curses, I do not believe it will hurt the credibility of an Apple Store that sells Eminem (who is an excellent artist, by the way).
But that's what one gets with a communications explosion and world-wide shift to one language (for all effects and purposes, English is the world language).
Back to the Steve Jobs issue....
What's wrong with Steve using "vulgar" language to name his opponents? Apple is dealing with the music industry now, and being "hip" is everything (music is, afterall, simply an extension of society's flavors). Therefore, even if Steve Jobs curses, I do not believe it will hurt the credibility of an Apple Store that sells Eminem (who is an excellent artist, by the way).
Re: I know this is petty and nitpicky
Hmmm...I'm not sure where you got this. The phrase "beg the question" is indeed misused, but not in the way that you suggest. The phrase has a specific rhetorical meaning.
From my textbook "A Rulebook for Arguments", in the section entitled "Directory of the Fallacies":
begging the question: implicitly using your conclusion as a premise
So begging the question means using circular reasoning, not avoiding the question.
Hmmm...I'm not sure where you got this. The phrase "beg the question" is indeed misused, but not in the way that you suggest. The phrase has a specific rhetorical meaning.
From my textbook "A Rulebook for Arguments", in the section entitled "Directory of the Fallacies":
begging the question: implicitly using your conclusion as a premise
So begging the question means using circular reasoning, not avoiding the question.
Hey guys, I think you need to realize that if Steve Jobs wasn't a hardass, we wouldn't be using the Macs we're using right now (unless you're on one of them pre iMac things...)
Steve Jobs doesn't take crap from anybody. He has to be a hardass to survive in the computer world. By putting on this friendly face at the MacWorld keynote, he makes people think that he is successful by being cool and happy, but behind that 'cool' appearance, he has to be a major hardass.
You also have to have almost 3 balls to do some of the things Jobs is doing today, like taking on other music downloading services, challenging microsux's IE (and soon to challenge office), planning on sueing motorola, pushing IBM to get the 970 out ahead of schedule, and continuing to be the single major innovator in silicon valley. You have to have the guts to release a bondi-blue plastic computer to the masses.
Jobs has to be sure of himself, and the people he works with. To do that, he has to be hard on himself and others. It shows loyalty, and makes people work better and harder (if you can stand Jobs...) You see, he took a gamble on the xServe because the market out there was already pretty big, and they were just starting out, and Jobs said that Apple was going to be a humble player in this massive market. Now, they're innovating like no other, making server and storage solutions available to small businesses and others.
With the Apple Music Store, Jobs had to have the support of the major lables. He had to do something radically different to make this service better than the others, and he did. Since Apple has major plans for the Apple Music Store, he can't appear to be humble to the competition. He has to be the biggest hard ass in the industry to stay on top here. He has to flat-out diss the other services to show why Apple's is just so much better. He basically said "their services suck, and we didn't like it, so we made ours better." By using strong words, he makes himself appear more confident, which intimidates competitors, and makes investors feel more secure. Apple can't afford to lose here, and they don't plan on it either.
As for Jobs firing people, I don't think that that's as big of a problem at Apple as it is at other places. Jobs himself said that Apple hasn't laid off a fraction of the amount of people that other companies have gotten rid of. Of course, it is sometimes necessary for a company such as Apple to be able to get rid of people who aren't profitable to the company. In the current economy, I'd rather see Apple lay off people than take a major hit, and risk financial stability just to save jobs. (edit: I just realized the irony in using the word 'jobs' )
You must understand that Jobs has to be the hardass he is. When working with other businesses, you can't seem weak, or the other guys will take advantage of you. Apple probably saw this from Motorola. You can also look at the endless number of companies who have partnered with microsoft, only to be screwed in the long run. Those companies were founded on an 'idea', and backed only by that 'idea'. Apple, while founded on an 'idea', is backed by much more, such as a hardass CEO. When working with a hardass, you have to be on their good side. This ensures that Apple is less likely to be screwed by business partners, and that they will cooperate more fully, or not at all, in which case, they find someone else to work with.
I believe that Jobs has learned from experience what being a softy can do. It almost cost him Apple. I know for sure that Jobs has learned a valuable lesson, and uses it to his advantage. It also explains why Apple has such a small market share. Sure, Sculley may have been a hardass, but he didn't know where to be hard and where to be soft. Jobs understands who he has to be a hardass with, and who he has to be humble with.
Recording industry & server markets- humble
iLife, iMac, iPod, PowerBook, PowerMac, Safari, OS X, Music Store competitors- hardass
I'm sure it's more detailed than that, but you see, Apple needs to learn more about server markets, so they're humble there. Apple also needs support from the recording industry for their Music Store, so they also have to be humble. For everything else, they have to show that they have the best product. Usually, the products sell themselves, but for the really important stuff, like the Apple Music Store, Jobs has to be a hardass when comparing it to the competition. Cheesey comparisons won't work, like the PowerMac vs P4 photoshop tests, and that gateway vs iMac thing that gateway did. Those didn't do much. They were both rigged. Jobs flat out spoke about how the other music downloading services suck. It's the only way they'll get anywhere with it. They can't just advertise features and let the product go freely into the market. Apple knows they have a winner, and they want to promote it as much as possible, where as with the xServe, they have a product that they're unsure about it's success, so they push it mroe cautiously.
Of course, these are just my opinions (I'm not much of a hardass, am I? ) and you can take them how you want, but I've seen what happens to people who can't stand up for their prodcuts or beliefs. They get crushed. Just look at people who get shot down by Bill 'O Riley (I don't mean to hijack this thread into a political discussion, but just look at how many people he's shot down because he's such a hardass...)
I rest my case.
Steve Jobs doesn't take crap from anybody. He has to be a hardass to survive in the computer world. By putting on this friendly face at the MacWorld keynote, he makes people think that he is successful by being cool and happy, but behind that 'cool' appearance, he has to be a major hardass.
You also have to have almost 3 balls to do some of the things Jobs is doing today, like taking on other music downloading services, challenging microsux's IE (and soon to challenge office), planning on sueing motorola, pushing IBM to get the 970 out ahead of schedule, and continuing to be the single major innovator in silicon valley. You have to have the guts to release a bondi-blue plastic computer to the masses.
Jobs has to be sure of himself, and the people he works with. To do that, he has to be hard on himself and others. It shows loyalty, and makes people work better and harder (if you can stand Jobs...) You see, he took a gamble on the xServe because the market out there was already pretty big, and they were just starting out, and Jobs said that Apple was going to be a humble player in this massive market. Now, they're innovating like no other, making server and storage solutions available to small businesses and others.
With the Apple Music Store, Jobs had to have the support of the major lables. He had to do something radically different to make this service better than the others, and he did. Since Apple has major plans for the Apple Music Store, he can't appear to be humble to the competition. He has to be the biggest hard ass in the industry to stay on top here. He has to flat-out diss the other services to show why Apple's is just so much better. He basically said "their services suck, and we didn't like it, so we made ours better." By using strong words, he makes himself appear more confident, which intimidates competitors, and makes investors feel more secure. Apple can't afford to lose here, and they don't plan on it either.
As for Jobs firing people, I don't think that that's as big of a problem at Apple as it is at other places. Jobs himself said that Apple hasn't laid off a fraction of the amount of people that other companies have gotten rid of. Of course, it is sometimes necessary for a company such as Apple to be able to get rid of people who aren't profitable to the company. In the current economy, I'd rather see Apple lay off people than take a major hit, and risk financial stability just to save jobs. (edit: I just realized the irony in using the word 'jobs'
)You must understand that Jobs has to be the hardass he is. When working with other businesses, you can't seem weak, or the other guys will take advantage of you. Apple probably saw this from Motorola. You can also look at the endless number of companies who have partnered with microsoft, only to be screwed in the long run. Those companies were founded on an 'idea', and backed only by that 'idea'. Apple, while founded on an 'idea', is backed by much more, such as a hardass CEO. When working with a hardass, you have to be on their good side. This ensures that Apple is less likely to be screwed by business partners, and that they will cooperate more fully, or not at all, in which case, they find someone else to work with.
I believe that Jobs has learned from experience what being a softy can do. It almost cost him Apple. I know for sure that Jobs has learned a valuable lesson, and uses it to his advantage. It also explains why Apple has such a small market share. Sure, Sculley may have been a hardass, but he didn't know where to be hard and where to be soft. Jobs understands who he has to be a hardass with, and who he has to be humble with.
Recording industry & server markets- humble
iLife, iMac, iPod, PowerBook, PowerMac, Safari, OS X, Music Store competitors- hardass
I'm sure it's more detailed than that, but you see, Apple needs to learn more about server markets, so they're humble there. Apple also needs support from the recording industry for their Music Store, so they also have to be humble. For everything else, they have to show that they have the best product. Usually, the products sell themselves, but for the really important stuff, like the Apple Music Store, Jobs has to be a hardass when comparing it to the competition. Cheesey comparisons won't work, like the PowerMac vs P4 photoshop tests, and that gateway vs iMac thing that gateway did. Those didn't do much. They were both rigged. Jobs flat out spoke about how the other music downloading services suck. It's the only way they'll get anywhere with it. They can't just advertise features and let the product go freely into the market. Apple knows they have a winner, and they want to promote it as much as possible, where as with the xServe, they have a product that they're unsure about it's success, so they push it mroe cautiously.
Of course, these are just my opinions (I'm not much of a hardass, am I?
) and you can take them how you want, but I've seen what happens to people who can't stand up for their prodcuts or beliefs. They get crushed. Just look at people who get shot down by Bill 'O Riley (I don't mean to hijack this thread into a political discussion, but just look at how many people he's shot down because he's such a hardass...)I rest my case.
Those stories about Steve are during his time cleaning up Apple. If you'd rather he keep on all the dead weight, just write him a letter. Let me know if he agrees with you so i have to to sell my stock.
edit: btw, G4scott, you hit it on the head.
Re: Strong words from SJ
wait, where the hell is the link?
I don't have an subscription so I have questions when he acually says it suckes.
BTW, damn G4scott we all know he trys really hard to get everything to work like he wants it.
wait, where the hell is the link?
I don't have an subscription so I have questions when he acually says it suckes.
BTW, damn G4scott we all know he trys really hard to get everything to work like he wants it.