student tasered and arrested for asking questions

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Don't panic, Sep 18, 2007.

  1. Don't panic macrumors 603

    Don't panic

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    #1
    In what is possibly the most spectacularly shocking step yet towards the establishment of a fascist regime, a student was tortured and arrested for asking questions (and not particularly hard ones too) at a town meeting hall with sen john kerry in florida.

    the video is appalling.

    i can't decide if the scariest part is the incredibly eccessive reaction from the officers, culminating in wanton violence, the apathy of the students around who just sit and enjoy the show, or the complete inaction of a US Senator in front of actions that spit in the face of what the nation he swore to represent is supposed to be about.

    http://www.abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=3616977
    http://www.miamiherald.com/news/broward/story/241219.html
    http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/09/18/student.tasered.ap/index.html

    another sad day for the nation.
     
  2. bartelby macrumors Core

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    #2
    They cuffed him, then tasered him?:confused:

    How can that not be wrong?
     
  3. pseudobrit macrumors 68040

    pseudobrit

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  4. mduser63 macrumors 68040

    mduser63

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    #4
    Meh, doesn't surprise me, police do this kind of thing all the time.
     
  5. adrianblaine macrumors 65816

    adrianblaine

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    #5
    I know a couple people who are cops, and although not every cop is like this, the best way to get them mad is to not do what they want you to do (resist, which he was mildly). I'm not defending this at all, but if I ever get arrested, I'm going to be silent and let them drag me where they want, because I don't want to know what it's like to be tasered.
     
  6. Swarmlord macrumors 6502a

    Swarmlord

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    #6
    Maybe the student will have finally learned how to ask a question and then sit down and listen to the answer instead of trying to dominate the forum and refuse to relinquish the mike.

    It is funny this happened at a Kerry event though.
     
  7. bartelby macrumors Core

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    #7
    So you don't think it was a bit of an over reaction by the pigs cops?
     
  8. Scarlet Fever macrumors 68040

    Scarlet Fever

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    #8
    honestly, the USA is rather messed up. I commend the Americans who can see that and who are trying to make a difference, and i feel terribly sorry for the ones stupid enough to buy the BS they are fed.

    What the **** could have possibly possessed those coppers to do that to a person? They should be fired immediately and not allowed to be in any position of power ever again.
     
  9. Don't panic thread starter macrumors 603

    Don't panic

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    #9
    i know you like to provoke reactions, and feel obliged to act as the uber-reactionary voice of the forum, but don't you think that this are scenes right out of ceacescu's romania or stalin's soviet union?
    aren't you disturbed that a person can be tortured for asking a question?
    would it still be ok to you if they had shot him dead on the spot?
    aren't you concerned that at some point it might be you the one arrested or tortured for having an opinion, or for even for doing absolutely nothing?
     
  10. mkrishnan Moderator emeritus

    mkrishnan

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    #10
    For what it's worth, I've been in Gainesville since 2004, and I really have not heard a lot of stories of campus security brutality here... this surprised me. It hasn't, to my knowledge, been characteristic of what our police have done. To the point, the last time I remember the UF/Gainesville PD being in the news, it was because one of their members was killed by a drunk driver doing routine security after the championship....
     
  11. Thomas Veil macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

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    #11
    I'm gonna shock some of you by saying that I probably agree with Swarmy.

    I tried to watch the CNN video, but it was so stuttery, even over a cable connection, that it was impossible to make sense of.

    So going only by the articles, it sounds like the student got out of control. He was given the favor of asking an extra question (after being told the Q&A was over); he took way more time than was allotted to him; the student organization sponsoring the event called the cops; the audience apparently cheered his being forcibly removed; he resisted the police with violence and got what you get when you resist the police with violence.

    Somebody show me where I'm wrong, but I can't get real indignant about this.
     
  12. adrianblaine macrumors 65816

    adrianblaine

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    #12
    True, it should be made clear that he was not tasered for asking questions. He was hogging the mic and when they asked him to stop, he kept going. To me it seemed like he was talking so much he wasn't even letting Kerry answer his questions. I don't agree with what they did to him in the slightest, but he probably shouldn't have resisted. That's what got him in that situation, but that doesn't make what they (the police) did right.
     
  13. Abstract macrumors Penryn

    Abstract

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    #13
    I was a bit upset at first, but after watching the first 15 seconds of the video, I was kind of waiting for the part where this guy gets tasered. ;)

    Sorry, but he was asking for it. Well, not exactly. He was asking to be physically thrown out, or maybe even held in jail by police for the day, but not tasered.....although he did resist arrest by trying to free himself from police grasp. Meh, I change my mind again.......taser the fart.
     
  14. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #14
    You should know by now that he isn't. Swarmlord only cares about the cops suppressing freedom of speech (as long as it isn't his) and his money.

    I watched the vid too. I saw no reason for this guy to even be arrested in the first place. There should be no time limit on asking questions of our elected officials in a public forum. Utterly ridiculous.
     
  15. it5five macrumors 65816

    it5five

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    #15
    Though I don't condone the actions of the campus police (it was wrong to taser him), the kid needs to seek mental help if he actually believed that the campus police had killed a protester a few weeks earlier and were now going to take him away and kill him as well.
     
  16. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #16
    I'm with you there. Maybe he's had too much LSD. :) I hadn't read that. Was that on his website?
     
  17. phungy macrumors 68020

    phungy

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    #17
    Wow I'm surprised the news has spread so far, heh. I did not go to the forum cause I wasn't in town but its all over the local newspaper.

    Trained UPD (university police) could have handled it without using malicious weapons but they probably had been wanting to use the taser on an actual person :rolleyes:
     
  18. it5five macrumors 65816

    it5five

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    #18
    No, it was at the end of the video. The last few minutes he is saying "someone follow us, they're gonna kill me", and variations of that.

    EDIT: Just realized the link stories about the incident probably don't have the full video. Let me find the full one.

    http://video.nbc6.net/player/?id=157250

    Found it. Finally. Almost every single video out there cuts off before he starts spouting off the crazy stuff. That or they are edited in such a way that makes the campus police look even worse than they do in the normal version.

    I'd also read a lot of first-hand accounts of the event, and although I definitely think he should have been removed from the event, tasering him while he was handcuffed went too far.

    http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2007/9/18/10649/5334
     
  19. Swarmlord macrumors 6502a

    Swarmlord

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    #19
    No. If law enforcement asks you to do something, you do so or they have the authority to escalate. Your recourse is NOT in arguing with them, but through the legal system. It's been that way for a long time and there's not a court in the land that doesn't back that up.

    Free speech does not mean that you have the right to endlessly disrupt a public forum. A person's right to free speach ends where it infringes on the rights of others.
     
  20. Don't panic thread starter macrumors 603

    Don't panic

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    #20
    are you kidding? watch the video. there are several sources.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sE76LQwT6qA&eurl=http://news.google.com/

    honestly, it's irrelevant that he took some extra time (probably a minute or so, his entire intervention lasts about 2 mins). shutting the mike is an extreme already reaction (which had worked) and show him the exit if he really doesn't stop. he wasn't being aggressive or threatening in any way.
    the police over-reacted immediately, and he was just trying to keep their hands off him, not violently.
    he was reasonably quiet and handcuffed, only asking why he was being arrested when he was tasered for no reason at all.

    the fact that no-one intervened is a sad testament of the sheep mentality that has been instilled in our society, to the point that merely venting a dissenting opinion or taking 60 sec of extra-time in a Q&A has become an acceptable reason for jail and torture.

    as far as the officers, as a minimum they should be fired, although some time in jail for them would be a fair punishment.
     
  21. Swarmlord macrumors 6502a

    Swarmlord

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    #21
    No. Had it been Romania or the USSR, he would have been shot in the head shortly afterwards and his family billed for the cost of the bullet.

    He wasn't tortured. The audience and speaker subjected to his antics were the ones suffering. He seemed a little old to be throwing a tantrum like that.

    No. I would have dragged his butt out a lot faster and if his head hit a few objects on the way out, then too bad.


    No. I don't pull antics like that. He was disrupting the forum after he was given the opportunity to ask his question. That's not "nothing". If he's got something to say, there's plenty of venues other than disrupting Kerry's talk. He can run for office himself if he wants, write an article or whatever. I can't feel sorry for an idiot.
     
  22. Don't panic thread starter macrumors 603

    Don't panic

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    #22

    endlessly?.

    the entire intervention lasted exactly 83 seconds (timed) when they cut the mike. at that time he already the cops hands on him.

    how did his questions infringe on anyone's rights? please enlighten me.
     
  23. Swarmlord macrumors 6502a

    Swarmlord

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    #23
    He infringed on other's rights the moment he refused to step away from the mike after his original question was answered requiring the mike to be cut in the first place.
     
  24. it5five macrumors 65816

    it5five

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    #24
    He didn't take extra time: he ran up to the microphone while someone else was asking a question, interrupted, and made a scene. The police were going to remove him then, but Kerry allowed him to stay and answered his question after he answered the one that was interrupted. After his microphone was cut off, he shouted to be heard instead of stopping. Police had approached him numerous times (you can't see it in your video) and politely asked him to leave. He refused, and made a scene.

    It was wrong for him to be tasered, yes. There were about 5 police on him. They should have been able to remove him from the building without using a taser. But don't make this kid into a martyr. He was disrupting an event, and was asked to leave. When he refused, the police intervened.

    You really need to read into the whole even and watch a full video that includes the events beforehand. I had reacted like you did initially when I saw some videos, but almost everyone that was present at the event agreed that kid the was being ridiculous.
     
  25. Don't panic thread starter macrumors 603

    Don't panic

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    #25
    merriam webster:
    1 a : anguish of body or mind : AGONY b : something that causes agony or pain
    2 : the infliction of intense pain (as from burning, crushing, or wounding) to punish, coerce, or afford sadistic pleasure

    medical definition:
    Torture: An act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted on a person, for a purpose such as obtaining information or a confession, punishment, intimidation or coercion, or for any reason based on discrimination of any kind.

    legal definition:
    In accordance with article 1, the international concept of torture comprises five elements:
    a) severe pain and suffering, whether physical or mental;
    b) intentional infliction;
    c) for such purposes as obtaining information or a confession, punishing, intimidating or coercing, or for any reason based on discrimination of any kind;
    d) inflicted by or at the instigation of or with the consent of a public official and other person acting in an official capacity;
    e) exclusion of torture related to pain arising from lawful sanctions.

    torture.
     

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