Such a not surprise: Half of immigrant-led households collect welfare as admission rules go unenforc

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by DUCKofD3ATH, May 4, 2016.

  1. DUCKofD3ATH Suspended

    DUCKofD3ATH

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    #1
    What a great way to fund The Wall: kick out the immigrants on welfare! Use the savings to close the border.

    Half of immigrant-led households collect welfare as admission rules go unenforced
    Immigrants are supposed to be beneficial to the U.S. — so much so that federal law requires them to prove they won’t end up on the public dole if they are legally admitted.

    But it’s a stricture honored more in the breach than in compliance, according to statistics obtained by the Federation for American Immigration Reform, which found that of the millions of legal immigrants living in the U.S. and collecting welfare or other public benefits, only a single person was kicked out of the country over the last three years for becoming a public burden.
    If they're not contributing, kick 'em out! Es la ley!
     
  2. Renzatic Suspended

    Renzatic

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    #2
    I'll tell you who we need to kick out of the country: people who think putting autoplaying videoclips on their websites are a great idea.
     
  3. SHNXX macrumors 68000

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    #3
    There are many costs of immigration.

    Obviously there are pros of legal and illegal immigration as well: low cost of (illegal) labor for many difficult jobs, which benefits consumers and businesses. Whether it's people working at farms, cleaning houses, or working at tech companies with H1B visas, cheaper labor benefits many Americans.

    But there are cons as well: fewer jobs for low-skilled American workers, fewer jobs for Americans competing with H1B tech immigrant workers, burden on taxpayers via higher cost of maintenance of infrastructure and government services, higher cost of healthcare (ER visits from immigrants is a huge burden on hospitals when they cannot pay), etc.

    No American should be for or against all Americans, but there should be a serious debate regarding how many immigrants from which countries, of what type.
    Does it benefit Americans to help female refugees from Syria? Does it help Americans to help young male refugees from Syria?
    Should we allow immigration from China? How many? What skills and background should they have?
    How many immigrants from Mexico should America let in every year?

    In reality, none of these issues gets debated because one side calls for a time machine while another calls the other side racists.
     
  4. vrDrew macrumors 65816

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    #4
    A couple of notes:

    1) The study refers to legal immigrants: ie. Those people granted permanent resident or other status that allows them to remain in the United States legally. Illegal immigrants, etc. are barred by law from receiving Welfare, Social Security, Foods Stamps, etc.

    2) The definition of "Welfare" they use is pretty broad. Everything from TANF (food stamps) but also housing assistance, Medicare and subsidized school lunches. As many legal permanent resident immigrants are either families with young children, or the elderly parents of US citizens - this should not be surprising.

    3) The fact that relatively few legal immigrants get deported speaks more about the success of our immigration laws and policies than anything else. It suggests that relatively few legal immigrants become criminals, or abuse our system of State and Federal social programs.

    4) Unlike many other countries, the United States has in place a mechanism that grants legal immigrants a path to full citizenship. Immigrants are eligible to apply for naturalization after living here for five years. Ergo, it should not necessarily be that surprising that a relatively high percentage of people who recently came to this country should be receiving some form of financial assistance as they establish themselves.

    Additionally, many legal immigrants have been granted their status because they are fleeing political or other oppression in their home countries. Oftentimes arriving in this country with little more than the clothes on their back; and lacking the financial and familial resources of people born in this country. It hardly seems like a very wise policy to admit political or other refugees, and have them end up living penniless on our streets. Most cases the "welfare" they receive is support until they can get on their feet financially.

    If you, or anyone else, wants to change the rules so as to bar the elderly parents of US citizens, or the victims of political oppression from living legally in this country - take it up with your Congressman. Good luck with that.
     
  5. DUCKofD3ATH thread starter Suspended

    DUCKofD3ATH

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    #5
    Except that when you factor in the other costs (welfare for example) the middle class is picking up the tab so the wealthy can have cheap workers:
    More than half of households headed by immigrants in the county illegally, or 62 percent, received welfare benefits in 2012, according to a report released by the Center for Immigration Studies.​
    There's no "pro" to having illegals living in this country.

    It's all "cons". We need to close the border, then evict those who aren't contributing to our society.

    First thing (while we're building the wall) is to change rules allowing relatives of immigrants to come into this country. There's nothing wrong with limiting immigration to people who will improve this country by their presence.

    I don't get the time machine reference, but I agree about the other side being wild and free with the racist charge.
    --- Post Merged, May 4, 2016 ---
    Nope:

    Just because illegal aliens are not legally entitled to these benefits does not mean they do not apply for them. Yes. It is true that illegal aliens have received grants, professional accreditations, loans, WIC, disability, public housing, college educations, food stamps, unemployment benefits, and tax credits from state and federal agencies.

    According to the U.S. Census Bureau, at least one third of foreign born citizens in the United States are illegal aliens. Since children born in the United States are considered U.S. Citizens, it becomes complicated when illegal aliens then bear children who are U.S. Citizens.

    There are entire industries based on making sure illegal and legal immigrants learn how to game the system. And how you infer that half of immigrant-led households collecting welfare isn't abusing our system is mystifying.

    It is astonishing that newly arrived immigrants would be on welfare! If they don't have jobs when they come here, why are we allowing them in to use our social programs?

    Again, there are immigration groups who actually school immigrants on what to say so they can scam the system into giving them asylum. The whole system needs to be scrapped.
     
  6. CalWizrd Suspended

    CalWizrd

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    #6
    "Such a not surprise..."

    Was this thread title composed by Yoda?
     
  7. DUCKofD3ATH thread starter Suspended

    DUCKofD3ATH

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    #7
    I hired an illegal to write it while I was busy writing messages for the billboards that will be hanging on the Mexican side of The Wall.

    What do you think?:

    This time, take a number!​
     
  8. SHNXX macrumors 68000

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    #8
    Well, one counter-argument is that many lots of smartest people from all over the world come to America and make America a better place.
    This of course does not make a strong case for immigration in general per se, only that the smartest people should be allowed into the country.
    But even that has one downside, which is that smart Americans will see their wages and opportunities depressed (see number of STEM Ph.D.'s in America over time)
     
  9. Populism macrumors regular

    Populism

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    #9
    If you mention humans entering the United States of America in a slightly non-legal way and without living wage then you are a

    bigot.

    Tread carefully.
     
  10. DUCKofD3ATH thread starter Suspended

    DUCKofD3ATH

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    #10
    How do you know that? Given that half of the legal heads of households are on welfare, you need to make a case that the balance of legal immigrants are doing jobs Americans won't do or can't do, and doing it better. Otherwise, what are they doing here?

    Total agreement with you on this.

    Competition is good. But if we have no shortage of STEM PhDs, why undercut them with immigrants? The same goes with all occupations here: if Americans are doing the jobs competently, why do we need immigrants?
    --- Post Merged, May 4, 2016 ---
    The Left hangs epithets on anybody they disagree with and with whom they cannot debate. It's what makes them Leftists.
     
  11. SHNXX macrumors 68000

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    #11
    Well, don't get me wrong. I agree that it is generally not in the best interest of American taxpayers to have large scale immigration.

    But there are some non-partisan economists who will argue that US immigration has helped the US economy by increasing population growth and providing low cost labor.
    The benefits from this, as you point out, disproportionately affect the poor Americans negatively, but those Americans also tend to vote for Democrats, whose policy is generally in favor of increased immigration.

    So on both sides of the aisle, the wealthy and the poor are pro-immigration to some extent, which is why I doubt the problem will be solved, even by Trump.
     
  12. DUCKofD3ATH thread starter Suspended

    DUCKofD3ATH

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    #12
    How is it in the interest of Americans in general to have more immigration? Do we need more people on welfare? Is there a shortage of criminals? Surely we can teach American citizens to trash our national parks without needing illegals to do it.

    Oh, they can argue that, but the facts aren't on their side.

    Cheap labor for businesses ends up costing Americans more in social services, crime, etc., and costs American citizens jobs.

    That isn't helping our economy

    It affects all Americans, but it hurts the lower class workers who can't find jobs because illegals are taking them.

    Build The Wall. Then kick out the freeloaders. Just need to get people fired up about the current disaster that is illegal immigration.
     
  13. SHNXX macrumors 68000

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    #13
    I'm not sure if that is a winning message, because most Americans are 1 or 2 generations removed from their own family's immigration.
    This is branding issue.

    Trump can certainly excite a portion of America that has a longer history since their ancestors' immigration, but there has to be a better rallying cry, which is inclusive of all Americans who believe in American values of liberty and Constitution.
     
  14. DUCKofD3ATH thread starter Suspended

    DUCKofD3ATH

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    #14
    It's not a branding issue, Real Americans hate illegal immigration, just look at how Proposition 187 did when it was voted on by Californians back in 1994:

    Prop 187 included the following:

    1. All law enforcement agents who suspect that a person who has been arrested is in violation of immigration laws must investigate the detainee's immigration status, and if they find evidence of illegality they must report it to the attorney general of California, and to the federal Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS). They must also notify the detainee of his or her apparent status as an alien.
    2. Local governments are prohibited from preventing or limiting the fulfillment of this requirement.
    3. If government agents suspect anyone applying for benefits of being illegal immigrants, the agents must report their suspicions in writing to the appropriate enforcement authorities.
    4. A person shall not receive any public social services until he or she has been verified as a United States citizen or as a lawfully admitted alien.
    5. A person shall not receive any health care services from a publicly funded health care facility until he or she meets the requirements above.
    6. A public elementary or secondary school shall not admit or permit the attendance of any child until he or she meets the requirements above.
    7. By 1996, each school district shall verify the legal status of each child enrolled within the district and the legal status of each parent or guardian of each child.
    8. A child who is in violation of the requirements above shall not continue to attend the school 90 days from the date of notice to the attorney general and INS.
    9. The attorney general must keep records on all such cases and make them available to any other government entity that wishes to inspect them.
    10. The manufacture, distribution, sale, or use of false citizenship or residency documents is a state felony punishable by imprisonment or fine.
    It was overwhelmingly approved by 58.93% of voters, of whom:

    63% of white (non-Hispanic) voters and 23% of Latino voters voted for Proposition 187; African-American and ethnic Asian voters split their voting equally for and against the law. Although non-Hispanic whites comprised 57% of California's population at the time, they comprised 81% of voters in the 1994 general election.
    So many Hispanics also hate illegal immigration.
     
  15. Renzatic Suspended

    Renzatic

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    I don't think anyone really likes illegal immigration, Duck. It's just that some people think others are making mountains out of molehills over it.
     
  16. DUCKofD3ATH thread starter Suspended

    DUCKofD3ATH

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    #16
    OK, when some people come to debate that point, I'll address it with them.
     
  17. Renzatic Suspended

    Renzatic

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    #17
    Here I am.
     
  18. DUCKofD3ATH thread starter Suspended

    DUCKofD3ATH

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    #18
    Yes. But I'm waiting for some people to debate the issue.
     
  19. SHNXX macrumors 68000

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    #19
    Well that was 1994, but in 2016, Mexicans in America are waving Mexico flag and burning down police cars at Trump rallies.
     
  20. DUCKofD3ATH thread starter Suspended

    DUCKofD3ATH

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    #20
    Yes. Americans are quietly fed up with such behavior by people who broke our laws to come here and have been disrespecting us ever since. The last laugh will be ours when we slam the gates closed behind them as they return to their paradise in Mexico.
     
  21. SHNXX macrumors 68000

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    #21
    Sadly, I bet you a lot of those people were Americans.
     
  22. DUCKofD3ATH thread starter Suspended

    DUCKofD3ATH

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    #22
    True. But they're the Lefties who'll trash anything as long as it hurts America. We have to keep THEM. They got in while the rules were lax.
     
  23. Renzatic Suspended

    Renzatic

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    #23
    Okay.

    Point 1.

    Why are we panicking about our little Mexican invasion when the illegal immigrant population has shrunk by over a million people throughout the last decade.

    Point 2.

    The greatest rise in our illegal immigrant population came about during 1990 to 2005, when we saw an influx of nearly 8 million people crossing our borders. We weren't screaming about it then. Barely even heard a peep out of Washington concerning it. So why is it a problem now when...I refer to point 1.

    Point 3.

    When has stark Nativism ever paid off as a political movement during the historical run of the United States?
     
  24. SHNXX macrumors 68000

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    #24
    This is why ideas matter more than race or even citizenship.
    Leftist Americans hold a worldview that is incompatible with free market, individual liberty, individual responsibility and upholding the values of Constitution, which makes them more detrimental to America's future than non-Americans who share those values.

    I agree with you that America needs to enforce its own laws regarding immigration, but the real opponent is the leftist Americans, not the immigrants, just as in Germany, where leftists are fighting tooth and nail to let more immigrants, who hold views that are incompatible with Western society, pollute their culture.
     
  25. Renzatic Suspended

    Renzatic

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    #25
    What the **** kinda history books have you been reading?
     

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