sue the international TB terrorist?

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by clevin, May 31, 2007.

  1. clevin macrumors G3

    clevin

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    #1
    the guy risks other ppl's health for his own selfish purpose of "getting treatment in the US". can't let him go easy.
    Mr. Andrew Speaker, a divorce lawyer [​IMG]
     
  2. Ugg macrumors 68000

    Ugg

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    #2
    It was very irresponsible of him, of that there's no doubt. Anyone with TB should not be traveling on a plane, especially when it was suggested by his doctor that he shouldn't.

    To be fair, he didn't find out that he multi-resistant TB until he was in Rome, but it was pretty slimy of him to fly back via Canada. If anyone else on those flights catch it, he and his wife and father in law should be sued for every penny they have.
     
  3. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #3
    as unfortunate and dangerous as the situation is, from what i understand, he broke no laws.
     
  4. SMM macrumors 65816

    SMM

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    #4
    I have heard a great deal of conflicting media accounts of this. If he did knowingly endanger others, he is definitely accountable for the consequences.

    BTW (off subject): I had thought you tar was a picture of Stonewall Jackson, or another Confederate General. I swear there is one that is an exact likeness. I have travelled to Cornwall on two occasions. I can hardly wait to return. It is one of my favorite places on earth.
     
  5. kalisphoenix macrumors 65816

    kalisphoenix

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  6. SMM macrumors 65816

    SMM

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    #6
    Clevin, loose the 'terrorist' tag, OK. This Madison Avenue tagging of everything is really nauseating.
     
  7. Ugg macrumors 68000

    Ugg

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    #7
    Knowingly transmitting an infectious disease has been a crime for a long time in many communities. Think of HIV. He knew that he had TB and sitting in an airplane for hours on end is a prime place to transmit it. The guy isn't stupid, just extremely selfish.

    Off Topic

    I just recently found out how he lost his eye.

    Young Peter was full of piss and vinegar. He worked as a blacksmith and in those days, smithies had large windows that could be opened in the summertime to cool the place down. One day rather than entering the smithy through the door he decided to leap through one of the open windows. Unfortunately, there was a hook hanging from one of the rafters...

    I was in Cornwall 19 years ago but am looking forward to going again, maybe next year. It'll take on a whole new meaning this time around.
     
  8. SMM macrumors 65816

    SMM

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    Off Topic:

    Ouch! Be sure to go to St Ives and have a cornish pie at the 'First and Last' near Land's End! There is also a church near the pub. It dates back to the dark ages. A very interesting place to visit.
     
  9. Aniej macrumors 68000

    Aniej

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    #9
    Come on, a tool maybe, but not a terrorist.

    What has had a far worse impact on public discourse in the United States is the hyper-sensationalization of everything and a race to the bottom in terms of bs popular culture dominating the news. Using terrorist to describe this guy is a classic example. Not only does it completely fail to recognize some widely accepted aspects of a terrorist, i.e., someone engaging in violent and disruptive behavior to further a political, social or religious cause. This guy is a tool, not a terrorist. I don't mean to come down so forcefully on you clevin regarding this point, but the ease at which people cast a title, such as terrorist, war on terror or you are not supporting the troops, is shameful and stifling of the ideals sought by the founding fathers articulated through the First Amendment.
     
  10. Aniej macrumors 68000

    Aniej

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    #10
    Just saw this one too

    Your quote does a better job explaining the fallacy with your reasoning than even I could. Namely, there has been no transmission of any disease yet, not even close. Risk of exposure doesn't equal transmission. You wouldn't charge a man carrying a gun with homicide simply because he could shoot someone. Moreover, I suspect, from a quick reading of what facts are available, the mental state (mens rea) would at best raise to the level of negligence or wanton disregard, but not intentional. In the HIV hypo the intent would be based on knowledge of the disease coupled with the willful transmission (note this is a layman description so don't point out missing elements if there are any of my fellow attorneys out there reading).
     
  11. Ugg macrumors 68000

    Ugg

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    #11
    Nowhere did I say he transmitted the disease. However, if it turns out he did, he has a lot of strikes against him. Putting people at risk is not a smart decision, especially when his decision to do so was based on selfish behaviour.
     
  12. clevin thread starter macrumors G3

    clevin

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    #12
    sure, i was hoping for a terrorists fatigue, the more u use it, the less credit it will have.
     
  13. takao macrumors 68040

    takao

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    #13
    the question would be what legislation would be concerned anyway after all it happend on different airlines and airports where local laws apply

    and tuberculoses is in many if not most countries in europa on the list of diseases which have to be reported to relevant department of health

    which in some cases including tubercoloses might involved bans on being in closed environments... he doesn't have to transmit the disease to getting sued
    after all was he wearing at least a face mask to protect others from it ? i think not ...


    oh and he did knew he had it _before he flew to europe_, he was informed in rome by the US CDC that he has to immediatly go into medical treatment in italy, which he happily ignored after visiting paris and prague

    in fact combined with canada and US that makes him sue-able in up to 5 countries and not only 1
     
  14. Swarmlord macrumors 6502a

    Swarmlord

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    Suffice to say that his lame apology isn't going to bail him out of his mess. Depending on test and his progress with the disease he may find himself a permanent resident of a negative pressure hospital room.

    I'd sure like to know more about how he supposedly contracted this disease.
     
  15. Lyle macrumors 68000

    Lyle

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    #15
    Did anyone else see his interview this morning on "Good Morning America"? I missed it because I was getting ready for work, but my wife saw it. She said that (if you believe Mr. Speaker's story) the doctors that he had talked to gave him dodgy advice at best about how much of a risk his illness actually is. And they had the doctors on tape saying this.
     
  16. aristobrat macrumors G4

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    #16
    I think his father-in-law didn't approve of the marriage.

    TB Patient's Father-In-Law Is CDC Tuberculosis Researcher

    That's what I heard too -- something to the effect that they told him he wasn't communicable, etc. But why on earth would they have that caught on tape??
     
  17. Swarmlord macrumors 6502a

    Swarmlord

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    #17
    I heard that he claimed to have taped some of the conversations. Who the heck carries around a tape recorder and knows to record a phone conversation? Something's fishy about this.
     
  18. Lyle macrumors 68000

    Lyle

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    #18
    Did you momentarily forget that he's a lawyer? A divorce lawyer?
     
  19. Queso macrumors G4

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    #19
    If just one person contracts TB thanks to his stupidity he should face criminal charges.

    What an idiot. He was in Italy, which is hardly the medical equivalent of Sierra Leone. Selfish, stupid man.
     
  20. Ugg macrumors 68000

    Ugg

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    #20
    Do you doubt he has it?

    MDR TB is pretty rare so it does seem odd, maybe he traveled a lot?
     
  21. Swarmlord macrumors 6502a

    Swarmlord

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    #21
    No, I don't doubt he has it, but I'm curious about the source of it. Something like that isn't exactly common. You get it two ways: come in contact with someone that has it or get exposed to it living in the conditions where it exists. If he caught it from exposure to someone else, then I hope they find that person too before he or she infects another. If he was living in the squalid conditions necessary to incubate this type of illness, then I hope they discover where it is and prevent others from getting it.
     
  22. Desertrat macrumors newbie

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    #22
    I had TB. Got it in Korea; it was discovered on a routine chest XRay some two years later. I spent some six months in the "bug ward" at Fitzsimmons Army Hospital in Denver.

    If it's only in the infiltration stage, it's very unlikely to be contagious without French kissing and coughing at the same time. Mine was only an infiltration, and none of the guys in my barracks got it, nor did my girlfriend of several months.

    If it's open lesions, different story. Any sneeze or cough can cause the bacilli to exit the lungs.

    My understanding is that this guy is in the infiltration stage.

    'Rat
     
  23. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    i was watching the news the other night, and they mentioned he'd been to peru (forget why) and vietnam (charity work).
     
  24. .Andy macrumors 68030

    .Andy

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    #24
    The two ways are of getting MDR TB (1) by inhalation of MDR myobacterium coughed up by someone else with active disease and (2) by being infected with myobacterium and it acquiring a MDR phenotype through incomplete compliance to antibiotic schedules.

    We try to get around point number 2 above in developed countries by using direct observed treatment short course (or DOTS), where you're quarantined (usually at home) and have a community nurse/health care provider turn up every day to give you your antibiotic treatment. This antibiotic treatment is a mixture of a number of antibiotics to ensure that the myobacterium are unable to become MDR - i.e. it attacks them from a number of different angles to ensure greater obliteration. Unfortunately in third would countries MDR myobacterium can arise due to (a) non-compliance taking antibiotics due to no DOTS (b) unreliable access to or the prohibitive cost of antibiotics, (c) people not taking a course of a number of antiobiotics simultaneously which therefore increases the chance of MDR arising.

    These days the BCG vaccination is not really recommended as it's doesn't seem to provide comprehensive immunity and/or long term immunity to TB. I can speak for Australia that even doctors aren't required or recommended to have BCG shots (we're required to have everything else though), even though exposure to TB patients is inevitable. We just ensure we don't have active TB by getting yearly chest X rays. Personally I'm positive for exposure to TB by mantoux test so there's a good chance I've got latent disease in my body. Luckily only a very small percentage of people ever go on to have active TB and are infective to others, and it's usually those who are immunosuppressed such as cancer patients or people with HIV.

    In this case it would be interesting how this guy was diagnosed. First line of diagnosis is from chest xray and microscopic examination of sputum samples for myobacteria, which is inefficient and not guaranteed to be successful even in someone with active TB. The gold-standard diagnosis for someone with active TB (and the only way to determine MDR) is growing up the myobacterium from sputum samples and testing their antibiotic sensitivity. This can take 6 weeks plus due to myobacterias slow growth rate. That's a long time to wait around in another country. It's not a simple case of a quick test.
     
  25. Desertrat macrumors newbie

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    #25
    Andy, after the infiltration was discovered in my chest XRay, they did a "skin pop" on my forearm. I don't know what was pushed under the skin, but it turned a bit red and very slightly raw within a day or three. (50 years ago, so I don't remember every detail). Do you have any such similar "skin pop" deal?

    Treatment back then was PAS (para amina sulphate) and INH (Iso-nicotinic acid hydrazide). I think I got the names right. :) PAS was sour stuff...

    'Rat
     

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