Supremem court to the right

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by clevin, Jun 28, 2007.

  1. clevin macrumors G3

    clevin

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    #1
  2. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #2
    Huh? All that from that article?
     
  3. clevin thread starter macrumors G3

    clevin

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    Aug 6, 2006
    #3
    no, just segregation, but they are all concluded from last two days rulings.
     
  4. nbs2 macrumors 68030

    nbs2

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    #4
    Not sure where even segregation came from. Ever since Brown, regardless of who was on the court, there has been a slow movement to reduce the use of race as a determining factor in school districting. Even before this, using race was severeful frowned upon unless you were under the supervision of a judge (which only happened because you had major segregation problems) - that Louisville was cleared indicates that the situation was much improved.

    In the end, the best way to reduce segregation in schools is to reduce self-segregation in housing and living choices. Even among people of the same socio-econimic class, you see neighborhoods that are divided by race....
     
  5. Swarmlord macrumors 6502a

    Swarmlord

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    #5
    The government should get out of the business of trying to social engineer. People live where they want and they should go to the school that's closest to them.
     
  6. Ugg macrumors 68000

    Ugg

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    #6
    No, people live where they can afford to live and in many urban areas around the country, they simply have no choice.

    I do believe that desegregation inadvertently led to the breakdown of local communities and think the best thing to do is to get rid of it and allow students to attend school near where they live. It would also do a lot to reduce the obesity level of all those suburbanites and exurbanites. Isn't it ironic that those who want space and fresh air tend to be the least likely to use it?

    As far as social engineering, the US should also force out all things from schools that do nothing to prepare them for their future careers. Religion is at the top of the list but there are a lot of other non necessary programs that litter the schools.

    The big issue of course is the inequalities involved in school funding. I'm sure the not so supreme and increasing ideological court will allow the holy grail of capitalistic leeches to deal with it though. So, I'm sure that's not a problem...
     
  7. MacNut macrumors Core

    MacNut

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    #7
    It might be wise to maybe change the thread title to match the topic of the article.
     
  8. LethalWolfe macrumors G3

    LethalWolfe

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    #8
    You mean like art, music, PE, and recess?


    Lethal
     
  9. Agathon macrumors 6502a

    Agathon

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    #9
    OK. Bye bye science and advanced mathematics.

    Most people will never need these in their future careers, yet they are compulsory in most schools. Most people don't need them, so they should be handed off to private tutors.

    Frankly, students are more likely to need the information that they get from Religion classes than what they get from Physics. You see, people meet people of other religions in professional life all the time.
     
  10. MacNut macrumors Core

    MacNut

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    #10
    I think schools should teach to the interests of the kids. I had no use for geometry but would have loved more music based classes.

    I think that desegregation has been nothing but trouble, Test scores haven't improved but instead the whole public system has faltered.
     
  11. Ugg macrumors 68000

    Ugg

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    #11
    Nope because our future is based on science and advanced math, even if we only rarely use it, it will always come in handy. Also, schools should be there to make people think critically, not simply regurgitate some pap out of a pay per view preacher's mouth.

    Excuse me? How many people go up to a prospective client and say, "What's your religion?" Yeah, I thought so, nobody.

    I would be all for comparative religions and current world affairs, if for no other reason that Americans are so ill-informed when it comes to anything outside their own narrow little world.
     
  12. rhsgolfer33 macrumors 6502a

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    #12
    I think he was kind of getting at a similar thing to what you're saying. He's not saying that schools should teach a single religion, but they should teach about numerous religions. Regardless of what you believe religion plays a fairly important role in the lives of people in most other countries and in the U.S., not teaching about religions would be a terrible mistake to make in such a globalizing world where young people now are fairly likely to deal with someone of completely different culture and religion in what ever future job or life experiences they have. And sure, no one goes up to a prospective client and asks what religion the are, but it sure does help to know what religious beliefs and customs are popular in the country your prospective client comes from; how would you like to take your prospective Muslim client out for a nice ham lunch to discuss a business deal over?
     
  13. Ugg macrumors 68000

    Ugg

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    #13
    Well, there are problems with that. Not all muslims follow such a strict interpretation of Islam, the Balkans come to mind.

    What you're talking about is cultural awareness which is not quite the same as religion. And knowing what country a person comes from is only rarely indicative of that person's religion much less their position on religion.

    I'm all for education that broadens the mind but rarely do religion classes do that. If anything they only reinforce perceived notions. It would be much better to approach it from a cultural angle.
     
  14. rhsgolfer33 macrumors 6502a

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    #14
    In many places religion and culture are quite closely tied together, so having a cultural awareness of say, Saudi Arabia, would most likely mean that you have a general awareness of the country's religion(s). Culture and religion are constantly shaping each other and have been for hundreds of years and continue to do so right now.

    I do agree with you that it is tough to tell what religion someone is by where they come from for the most part. Never-the-less, knowing where someone comes from gives a general idea of what religion the person most likely practices. For instance, if a person is from Israel he is likely Jewish, if a persons is from Italy, you've got a fairly good chance that he is Catholic. It does get harder when you get into certain nations, for instance, Germany, Christian would be the majority but you have a large percentage of non-worshipers too. And of course it gets harder as you breakdown religions in to "denominations" or "sects." Teaching broad knowledge of religions and cultures so that students are able to better understand who they will likely to work with in the future definitely would be of benefit to most students and even most adults. I have had many religion classes that have broadened my mind on the subject, they are required at the college I attend, it's all in who teaches the class. If they teach historically and not theologically based it helps, if they give you an idea of what certain religions, denominations, and cultures believe it is most definetly does help to understand what goes on in the world.
     
  15. Swarmlord macrumors 6502a

    Swarmlord

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    #15
    There are no public schools that teach religion. What are you talking about? Parochial schools do, but they are private, people pay to send their kids there and surprisingly, the kids that graduate from these types of schools are the ones that go on to college in the highest percentages?

    I dont' know what you're talking about regarding inequalities in school funding either. The school district we have here is enormous and the schools are paid on a per student basis regardless of the location. Poor areas and rich areas get the same funding if they have the same number of students.
     
  16. it5five macrumors 65816

    it5five

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    #16
    The school districts we have here get their funding based on what area of town they're in, through property taxes I believe. Don't believe me about inequalities? Come to Phoenix, go to one of the rich suburban areas and check out the school. They are enormous; huge computer labs with new computers, tons of sports and extra-curricular activities. Then go to a school in a low income area of town. You'll find overcrowded classrooms, schools with hardly any supplies, old computers, crumbling buildings.
     
  17. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #17
    Not so everywhere in the US.
     
  18. Agathon macrumors 6502a

    Agathon

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    #18
    Utter rubbish. Most people never use calculus. I know that I have not used it once since I left school, and I know no other person that has. The only people who use it are the very small number of people who did science degrees and work in the sciences.

    It's simply not cost effective to teach it to most people. The only reason you think it is, is because you have an irrational bias for it.

    Thinking critically is not required for the vast majority of jobs. If the person is going to be a university professor or a politician, it will matter. But most jobs do not involve critical thinking, but the repetitive performance of learned tasks.

    That's not the point. You will, as a matter of fact, have to deal with people of different religions every day. It helps to know what their belief systems are to make interacting with them easier. In order to be properly respectful of people, you really need to know quite a bit about them.

    Your problem is that you want to tie education to what will be useful in the workplace. People who think this usually want to emphasize the sciences and mathematics and de-emphasize the humanities and social sciences.

    But if you look at what most people will actually do in their working lives, there isn't much of a case for the sciences and mathematics, as most people will never use anything other than basic arithmetic for the rest of their lives.

    Making education be about future employment and nothing else is ridiculous. We might as well send people away from school at age 12, since most things they will learn in school have little bearing on the work they will do.
     
  19. Swarmlord macrumors 6502a

    Swarmlord

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    #19
    Interesting how those of us that learned to design sophisticated avionics and even personal computers never saw a computer in our lives until we were in college.

    What amazes me is that I learned most of what I know outside the classroom in the public libraries that were free and available to everyone in the city regardless of where they lived. I go to the library now and the few kids I see there are logging into sites like MySpace and similar sites and I never see them leave with a checked out book.

    My gradeschool class - in a private school by the way - had 32 students. We had one nun that was the teacher and there was no such thing as a teaching assistant. Was I raised in an overcrowded classroom?

    It's all an excuse of parents not teaching their kids to pursue education as a priority.
     
  20. Agathon macrumors 6502a

    Agathon

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    #20
    Yes. High school isn't really supposed to be about vocational training.

    It's supposed to be about equipping people with the knowledge they will need to be decent citizens and relatively informed voters. That's why history and civics are the most important subjects. People who want to get rid of this in favour of solely vocational education are proposing a curriculum appropriate for a society like China.

    And the other reason for having it is simply a moral one. Being ignorant is bad for people. Only a terrible parent wants their child to grow up an ignorant clod who is incapable of participating in rational, informed discussion.
     
  21. Thomas Veil macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

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    #21
    Back to the main subject:

    I think that our best hope (and I hate to put it this way) is that Anthony Kennedy retires and the next (Democratic) president replaces him with a liberal.
     

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