Surprised by low interest in and discussion of AR

[Tooldog]

I had expected more interest in AR by our tech embracing community. I guess it could be a personal style issue? Some have said there are ethical issues — given every smart phone has an open mic and geo locator in it this one seems a thin argument against. There has been very little movement in this space for a few years now. Is it all just vaporware?

 

[timerickson]

It may simply be that AR is still lacking it's "killer app", which will convince people of the utility of AR in their day-to-day lives.

Apple's AR strategy to date has been to largely relegate it to 3rd party app devs.

We have a few basic utilities, like 'Measure' which can definitely be useful, but is still approx., and will need to be double checked with a ruler for actual work. There are a large number of 'place an object in a room' apps, eg. furniture before I'm ready to buy it. Beyond that it's mostly locators (which get praise as used for AirTags, etc.), or gimmicks. Some niche applications are just too niche (medical, etc.)

Keep in mind also that Apple's most sold low-cost devices don't have LiDAR sensors.

 

[Sciomar]

It's more novelty as it stands right now, if Apple makes normal looking wearables that provide an AR experience I believe you'd see widespread adoption.

 

[Tooldog]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

Perhaps I see potential in AR that will never be realized in a similar way to 3D media. VR seems to be trudging along slowly in the consumer market but has an industrial niche carved out. However Apple may never have planned a product for that market.

 

[Bodhitree]

I think it’s a bit of a niche area. AR is interesting as a toy, but will people really buy into it? The killer app for AR is the “AR World”, where everything comes with AR visuals, buildings have big AR displays, everything is linked to the web and so on. A world that can provide rich contextual information in AR.

Now do we have something a bit like that? Yes we do, it’s Google Maps. How often do you use Google Maps (or Apple Maps), would you pay to have it hanging in your visual field all the time? I don’t think you would, I think this is a small market.

 

[thejadedmonkey]

The killer app for AR is a light set of glasses. I used the Hololens back when it first came out and it was a little rough around the edges, and I could have written some pretty nice apps for it that would have been great to use, but the headset itself was unwieldy. If you could have a pair of glasses that weigh the same as my glasses, that's the "killer app" that you're looking for, since now the only barrier to entry is some money, as opposed to money and the neck muscles from a heavyweight body builder.

 

[ScanTheNavian]

I had expected more interest in AR by our tech embracing community. I guess it could be a personal style issue? Some have said there are ethical issues — given every smart phone has an open mic and geo locator in it this one seems a thin argument against. There has been very little movement in this space for a few years now. Is it all just vaporware?

I am extremely eager to see what Apple brings to the table in VR/AR. Their choice of using LIDAR instead of normal cameras seems good. But I think Apple needs to launch a product and start building on it and show us where they think it'll take us.

 

[Bluetoot-]

I don’t really trust these “alternate reality” experiences. 3D, Virtual, Augmented Reality. They’re all gimmicks that don’t really solve anything.

 

[Flint Ironstag]

Steam had their MacOS VR beta... they had an opportunity to do something there... really annoying I have to drop into windows to do anything VR related.

 

[MisterK]

I think successful AR will require a mode shift to thinking about AR layers rather than apps. It would be not that I switch to the LinkedIn or Maps or Music apps, but turn on all of them as additive layers that are pertinent to me. It might sound like just a difference in phrasing, but it changes the usefulness of AR into a compounding one. Perhaps Maps is a useful layer on day one, but then Zomato reviews, Amazon price comparisons, Facebook Memories, etc. each layer onto my view of reality to make my particular outlook on the world more individualized and gradually more useful. It may not be that one app comes out that makes AR finally worth having, but that all the layers that are now out have made AppleAR pass a threshold where everyone can see its value.

 

[KindJamz]

For most people it’s a gimmick feature.

 

[danny842003]

It just hasn’t developed in to anything yet.
I wasn’t sold on either the iPad or Apple Watch when first launched but have since been won over by both. AR as it stands has even less obvious practical uses than either of those did.

 

[JahBoolean]

I revile the two biggest investors in the space ($FB and $MSFT). However, when looking at it from the academic research side, the space is thriving.

Noone really made it that compelling to use outside of niche Dviz/UX usecases.

We will have fully AR ready phones (with stereoscopic cameras or good enough software funcitions and excellent display tech) in Q3 2023, mark, my, words.

 

[CodeSpyder]

I had expected more interest in AR by our tech embracing community. I guess it could be a personal style issue? Some have said there are ethical issues — given every smart phone has an open mic and geo locator in it this one seems a thin argument against. There has been very little movement in this space for a few years now. Is it all just vaporware?

AR is going to be huge. The surface hasn't even been scratched yet. Geo tagging is a nice developer feature, but it requires that the area be scanned by Apple using LIDAR. Something needs to improve there, me thinks.

 

[mattspace]

AR is going to be huge.

Second only in scale to the "No Smart Glasses" signs industry, as every restaurant, cafe, and venue implements policies to keep AR creeper-tech folks out.

 

[CodeSpyder]

Second only in scale to the "No Smart Glasses" signs industry, as every restaurant, cafe, and venue implements policies to keep AR creeper-tech folks out.

Right. Got it. Those "AR creeper-tech folks" may have chips implanted in their brains that transmit a secret code in order to take over the minds of those who are not technically-oriented. We are out there and we are coming for you.

 

[mattspace]

Right. Got it. Those "AR creeper-tech folks" may have chips implanted in their brains that transmit a secret code in order to take over the minds of those who are not technically-oriented. We are out there and we are coming for you.

No, just creepers using the built in cameras to stalk people, or to record footage of people to order, with the full world of image-search and facial recognition behind it.

Insurance assessors trying to disprove people's disability claims might just sit in the restaurant a few tables away, to gather evidence of a person's ability to complete basic life tasks like self-feeding, no need to use a long lens from a parked car. Professional ex-partner stalking enablers selling their ability to act as directed gaze, "hot or not" youtube channel content creation when walking by the beach, competitive stalking where the goal is to see (and record) how long you can follow someone before they twig to it. The possibilities are endless.

While a cellphone makes its use as a camera pretty obvious, glasses tech is going to be significantly harder to police.

 

[CodeSpyder]

No, just creepers using the built in cameras to stalk people, or to record footage of people to order, with the full world of image-search and facial recognition behind it.

Insurance assessors trying to disprove people's disability claims might just sit in the restaurant a few tables away, to gather evidence of a person's ability to complete basic life tasks like self-feeding, no need to use a long lens from a parked car. Professional ex-partner stalking enablers selling their ability to act as directed gaze, "hot or not" youtube channel content creation when walking by the beach, competitive stalking where the goal is to see (and record) how long you can follow someone before they twig to it. The possibilities are endless.

While a cellphone makes its use as a camera pretty obvious, glasses tech is going to be significantly harder to police.

I heard that Apple isn't designing in a camera. What do I know though?

 

[mattspace]

I heard that Apple isn't designing in a camera. What do I know though?

If it has no camera capabilities, that would be odd, because Apple's entire use-case so far for AR is about putting virtual objects onto the real world. I'm not sure how a LIDAR scanner is going to work when there's dozens of them in the room, all spewing dots at the same time.

 

[Tooldog]

No, just creepers using the built in cameras to stalk people, or to record footage of people to order, with the full world of image-search and facial recognition behind it.

Insurance assessors trying to disprove people's disability claims might just sit in the restaurant a few tables away, to gather evidence of a person's ability to complete basic life tasks like self-feeding, no need to use a long lens from a parked car. Professional ex-partner stalking enablers selling their ability to act as directed gaze, "hot or not" youtube channel content creation when walking by the beach, competitive stalking where the goal is to see (and record) how long you can follow someone before they twig to it. The possibilities are endless.

While a cellphone makes its use as a camera pretty obvious, glasses tech is going to be significantly harder to police.

Nobody has privacy in public spaces so I’m not sure I follow the logic here. There are cameras recording public spaces at all times including beaches and restaurants etc. I do understand the wish for privacy but it’s just not reasonable to expect it in public spaces.
AR could be the next disruptive technology. Not likely the genie gets back in the bottle.

 

[throAU]

I had expected more interest in AR by our tech embracing community. I guess it could be a personal style issue? Some have said there are ethical issues — given every smart phone has an open mic and geo locator in it this one seems a thin argument against. There has been very little movement in this space for a few years now. Is it all just vaporware?

I suspect most people haven't experienced it or don't see the use case in their line of work.

I think AR is the next killer app and will be bigger than tablets, as it enables people who need one or more hands to work to remain connected and/or able to access information while working.

Google really screwed up with the marketing of glass, the real killer is information relevant to work, while working.

 

[mattspace]

I suspect most people haven't experienced it or don't see the use case in their line of work.

I think AR is the next killer app and will be bigger than tablets, as it enables people who need one or more hands to work to remain connected and/or able to access information while working.

Google really screwed up with the marketing of glass, the real killer is information relevant to work, while working.

I've used VR to do real work in my sculptural practice mocking up works at 1:1, which I then fabricated 30 feet tall and put on stage as part for a set for a play, so I understand the value of 3D immersive toolsets. Some of the big welding machine companies now make VR welding trainers, that are just a PC with an Nvidia GPU, in an actual welder case with the welder's controls, and a VR headset that looks like a welding helmet.

AR is going to be huge in welding, that's an easy prediction.

But, I think a lot of the hype for it as a general-purpose ubiquitous computing experience with lightweight "ordinary" glasses is very much a scifi fantasy by people who have not considered the consequences, or the physics of optics necessary to make a wide field of view image that can be focussed on at short distances - VR optics are bulky for reasons that go beyond component miniaturisation.

People talk about having heads-up displays while driving, I can tell you for a fact they will be insta-banned while operating motor cars in many markets, because having instrumentation over your view is *less* safe, not more, in a car. The only vehicle operation use I could see being approved for AR, is through-the-vehicle transparency to make sure anything out of the driver's sightlines is shown - but again, that's a technology used in aeroplanes, where localised collisions aren't a consideration. The legalities of liability involved in offering that feature in a car would be crippling.

As I said earlier, smart glasses with any form of visual sensors will almost certainly be blanket banned from most commercial and private venues, with the exception of use as disability aids - LIDAR feeding to a haptic vest to provide vibration alert for object collision has clear utility.

 

[throAU]

I can tell you for a fact they will be insta-banned while operating motor cars in many markets, because having instrumentation over your view is *less* safe, not more, in a car. The only vehicle operation use I could see being approved for AR, is through-the-vehicle transparency to make sure anything out of the driver's sightlines is shown - but again, that's a technology used in aeroplanes, where localised collisions aren't a consideration

I disagree.

AR combined with the many cameras cars have could help massively - seeing obstacles through A / B pillars, on-screen alerts of people in blind spot, etc.

Fighter planes, where localised collision (along with SAMs, visually spotting enemy aircraft, etc.) IS an issue (formation flying, dogfighting) use heads up and helmet mounted displays specifically so the pilot can pay more attention to what's going on outside.

It just needs to be done right so things like social media are NOT on it, and only relevant information is displayed.

 

[mattspace]

I disagree.

AR combined with the many cameras cars have could help massively - seeing obstacles through A / B pillars, on-screen alerts of people in blind spot, etc.

Solved by flexible OLED wrapped around the pillars themselves. It's the CAR's job to solve that problem, not an optional accessory that users may or may not wear.

Blind spots likewise - the car's radar / lidar needs to link to audio alerts for blind spot presence, not a visual indicator that then creates a blind spot, and again in an accessory that can't be assumed on the part of the operator.

Add to that, the frames of the glasses will bring significant blind spots of their own, unless they're fine wire frames, which no one is predicting.

Cars need to solve car safety, not accessories worn by drivers.

Fighter planes, where localised collision (along with SAMs, visually spotting enemy aircraft, etc.) IS an issue (formation flying, dogfighting) use heads up and helmet mounted displays specifically so the pilot can pay more attention to what's going on outside.

Yes, the point being new planes like the f-35 (are supposed to) feature a full transparent airframe for the pilot's perspective with the AR helmet - but it's a helmet, not lightweight glasses, and even in formation flying, dogfighting etc, there isn't the chaos of urban environments where you have cars, bicycles, pedestrians everything moving in different directions, and at different speeds.

It just needs to be done right so things like social media are NOT on it, and only relevant information is displayed.

Done right is putting all those functions into the car itself, not into an accessory the driver may, or may not wear. I have to wear (prescription) sunglasses when I drive during the day, and prescription clear when driving at night. Is that going to mean buying two pairs of smart glasses, or special driving glasses, or some sort of bulky flipups for adding shades to smart glasses.

For example, where I live, you can't even glance at a smart watch while in charge of a motor vehicle, unless it is fully parked (out of gear, parking brake engaged), due to the possibility of distraction by said consumer electronics device. There's next to zero chance smart glasses are going to be legal while driving here.

 

[Tooldog]

Thanks to everyone who has commented so far! Does anyone think Apple will eventually offer a product in AR? I'm not so sure they ever will.

I was unaware of VR welding instruction. Probably a perfect fit for VR. I wonder if there isn't a myriad of ways AR could assist in live welding. A visual overlay of angles, temperature of the work-piece (Note to the uninitiated: often the work-pieces must be pre-heated to prevent warping, etc.), outline of the welding working area, and so many I'll never think of.

In the same ways, and I'm sure a lot more, AR would benefit woodworking, pipe fitting, smithing, and pretty much any craft work that requires precision.

AR overlays for operating machinery and vehicles seems like a perfect fit as well. Aviation have utilized visor displays for some time now so we know humans can adapt to their use even in highly stressful situations. I'm hoping AR can be similarly adopted in General Aviation when the technology is ready.