Syrian rebels punk ISIS fighters with fake execution.

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by aaronvan, Dec 8, 2015.

  1. aaronvan Suspended

    aaronvan

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    #1
    Pretty cool story if it is true. I wonder if any of the Da'esh fighters will reflect on it, have a change of heart, and repent their evil ways. Probably not very many of them but even one would be enough. After all, "tall oaks from little acorns grow."

     
  2. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    #2
    Well, they're being at least a little evil by having these people endure a fake execution.

    But that quibble aside, I applaud all public displays of decency, and support spreading the "We are not evil" message.

    Maybe Trump should take notes.
     
  3. localoid macrumors 68020

    localoid

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    #3
    Trump has the world's greatest memory -- he doesn't need "notes."
     
  4. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    #4
    That's assuming he's been decent in the past, so he could remember what it feels like.
     
  5. localoid macrumors 68020

    localoid

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    #5
    I'm sure Baby Trump was "decent." I mean, just look at that face!

    [​IMG]
     
  6. sim667 macrumors 65816

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    #6
    Jaysh Al-Islam have been executing captured ISIS combatants and filming it for real.
     
  7. vrDrew macrumors 65816

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    #7
    Mock Executions have long been deemed a form of psychological torture. The manuals for treatment of POWs of the US military, and those of every other civilized nation, have outlawed their use. They are specifically named as a form of prohibited torture under the terms of the Geneva Convention.

    I wonder what it says about our culture where this sort of activity is now held up as being somehow exemplary behavior.

    Cool story, indeed, Bro.
     
  8. aaronvan thread starter Suspended

    aaronvan

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    #8
    If it takes a mock execution to demonstrate the quality of mercy to ISIS fighters then I'm all for it, "Bro."

    It's interesting that you're more outraged than had this been an actual execution.
     
  9. Scepticalscribe Contributor

    Scepticalscribe

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    #9
    No, he is 'not more outraged than had this been an actual execution'.

    Rather, he is concerned the erosion of (our) standards that considers this an acceptable response to how the organised necrophiliac, nihilistic, and pitiless terrorist group ISIL murder, slaughter and execute those whom they kill. I suspect that he fears - rightly - that if we fail to adhere to the standards we set ourselves, if we imitate the vicious and sadistic forms of war and terror used by those who oppose us, we run the risk of becoming more like them and less like the values we used to claim we stood for.

    And this would be a double tragedy, no just because these values are worth upholding in themselves, but because our values - the ones we claim to stand for - are what Daesh/ISIL detest most about our world.
     
  10. aaronvan thread starter Suspended

    aaronvan

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    #10
    Are you his press secretary?
     
  11. lowendlinux Contributor

    lowendlinux

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    #11
    Whose "our"?
     
  12. Scepticalscribe, Dec 9, 2015
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2015

    Scepticalscribe Contributor

    Scepticalscribe

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    #12
    No.

    I merely thought your remark about comparative degrees of outrage unnecessary.

    A pronoun that serves as a casually expressed short-hand for those who believe in stuff such as rule of law, human and civil rights, accountable governance and governments, elected governments, democracy and a free and fair elections and a free and fair electoral process, a monopoly on the legitimate use of lawful force, a free and informed media, separation of church - any church - and the state, and so on.
     
  13. lowendlinux Contributor

    lowendlinux

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    #13
    So really none of the people involved
     
  14. vrDrew macrumors 65816

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    #14
    I assume that none of us have much direct influence on what takes place in a brutal civil war halfway around the world. But what we do have control over is what happens in our *own* community. And for the purposes of this discussion I will include this forum.

    I think it is an alarming indication of how quickly one's culture's standards of behavior and acceptable conduct have declined when one of Britain's largest selling daily newspapers not only tacitly endorses mental torture - it even goes so far to suggest it as a matter of pride.

    That is wrong. But again, I must confess to having little influence over the editorial decisions of Fleet Street tabloids.

    For a forum member to suggest participating in a specifically banned form of mental torture a matter of humor (i.e. "
    punked") is disturbing to me. And in this instance I can stand up and say: "You do know that is still a war crime, right?"

    The battle with extremist savagery as exemplified by ISIL will not be won with savagery of our own. Already I have seen too many silly, cowardly, ignorant, and frankly racist people in this country flee to the false comforts promised by Donald Trump and half the Republican Presidential Candidates.

    I will not stand idly by while my own community descends into barbarism.
     
  15. aaronvan, Dec 9, 2015
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2015

    aaronvan thread starter Suspended

    aaronvan

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    #15
    Weaponized logorrhea may shut down debate in some quarters. Not here.
     
  16. Scepticalscribe Contributor

    Scepticalscribe

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    #16
    You are missing the point.

    Suggesting that one seeks to adhere to the standards - moral, political, legal - of our own societies - societies that purpose to be based on the rule of law (and that means not pretending to execute people just as it means not torturing or actually executing them) when conducting such operations is what the standards and laws that underpin our societies demand of us.

    And it is when we fail to adhere to such standards, or seek to circumvent them, (as happened in places such as Bagram, or Gunatanamo Bay) that we lose our much of our moral authority and credibility.

    Pointing out that conducting mock executions is illegal - and immoral - does not mean that one's sensibilities are so dainty that one needs to assume the foetal position or is, in your words, a 'delicate snowflake'.
     
  17. aaronvan thread starter Suspended

    aaronvan

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    #17
    I was reacting to his excessive snark. I like vrDrew and felt bad about it later, so I removed it.

    Still, I'm amazed that anyone finds fault in such a lesson in mercy.
     
  18. pdqgp macrumors 68020

    pdqgp

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    #18
    Military enlistment really should be a requirement between high school and college these days. People today are soft.
     
  19. Scepticalscribe Contributor

    Scepticalscribe

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    #19
    My concern is that dealing with them by conducting a mock execution - whether it is described as an act of mercy or not - is still something that is illegal - and viewed as a war crime - under our own laws and standards.

    You don't violate your own standards when dealing with a reprehensible and sadistic opponent.

    Nevertheless, I can see that this is an attempt to meet ISIS/Daesh on their own terms, that of PR, that world of superbly composed, sinister and sadistic videos, by sending a message that is sufficiently different to their own modus operandi to perhaps make a point.

    But I am not sure that fighting them on their terms - morally, visually, or physically - is quite the way to address this.

    Myself, I'm of the opinion that a close examination of the various money trails might repay some investigation. Because if politics, the pursuit of power, - and the act of killing - ought not be conducted outside of the lattice of a legal framework, certain types of financial transactions and commodities trades could also do with considerably greater financial and legal oversight than has been the case to date.
     
  20. Cox Orange macrumors 68000

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    #20
    There is a good documentary "taxi to the dark side" (the title looks a bit crappy, but it makes sense with the story of a taxidriver being tortured for driving two supposed Taliban) that explains and discusses all that went on under the Bush/Rumsfeld administration in this respect. It is even worse, than one could imagine by newspaper articles.
     
  21. aaronvan thread starter Suspended

    aaronvan

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    #21
    Well, as long as we're talking non sequiturs, is there a documentary explaining and discussing Obama's use of drones to conduct extrajudicial assassinations of American citizens?
     
  22. Cox Orange, Dec 9, 2015
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2015

    Cox Orange macrumors 68000

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    #22
    You misunderstand. I was just giving a video tip, I should have said: "While we are talking Mock executions, there is a good documentary about US mock executions from the present time, that also discusses the consequences of such make-it-look-as-if-executions". Do you now understand? :)

    (Also I am not saying Obama is always in accordance to genueve conventions. Or are you implying, because Obama does "bad" things, it is ok, when others did bad things, too? ;) )
     
  23. aaronvan thread starter Suspended

    aaronvan

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    #23
    Indeed, I do now.
     
  24. vrDrew macrumors 65816

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    #24
    There have been several, most prominent (in my mind) being PBS Frontline The Secret War which discusses, in depth, the escalation of the use of UAVs in the pursuit of al-Quaeda and other extremist forces.

    I think many people, on all parts of of the political spectrum, are at the very least uncomfortable with the use of UAV's to kill individuals overseas. There are very legitimate questions about the lack of oversight or accountability in such programs; as well as the amount of power it gives to the US President.

    That said, there is a fundamental legal difference between targeted killings and assassinations. A targeted killing is defined as being employed against an individual or group that poses an imminent violent threat to the security of the United States; its military forces; and its allies. The individuals targeted in such operations are determined to be either terrorists or engaged in asymmetrical warfare against the United States. An assassination, by way of contrast, would be undertaken to simply further the political aims of the United States.

    There is no question that Mock Executions are a prohibited form of mental torture; and as such a War Crime. There has been no consensus of legal opinion - nor is there likely to be in the future - over the use of Targeting Killings against individuals engaged in terrorism or asymmetrical warfare. That might sound like a legalistic quibble to some people; but it is - in my mind at least - an important difference.
     
  25. TheHateMachine macrumors 6502a

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    #25
    Back in my day people were literally hard as rocks, and we was better for it too.

    [​IMG]
     

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