Take a Look at Norway

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by vrDrew, Aug 12, 2019 at 1:26 AM.

  1. vrDrew macrumors 65816

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    #1
    I suggest you take a look at Norway.

    A country whose economy and society are built on the principles of Democratic Socialism. And a nation that considerably outperforms the United States on just about every metric.

    Democratic socialism - as opposed to the single-party authoritarian, nominally socialist, regimes such as Cuba and Venezuela - works extremely well. Considerably better, I would say, than what we are currently living under in the United States.
     
  2. mikef07 macrumors 6502

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    #2

    Norway every metric? Thanks for the laugh. There is not one relevant country that practices Democratic Socialism. The only relevant countries are capitalist or communist. Nothing else. Thanks for the laugh at Norway. I can name tons of relevant metrics where Norway doesn't beat states in our country. Norway is less relevant in the world than Florida is.
    --- Post Merged, Aug 12, 2019 at 11:30 AM ---
    Depends on the other choices. As usual you want to look at everything in a vacuum instead of living in the real world. It is like saying do you want to die of a heart attack? In a vacuum the answer is no, but if it is that or being torn limb by limb suffering for hours then yes I do want to die like that.
     
  3. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #3
    What’s China?
     
  4. mikef07 macrumors 6502

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    #4
    China is a communist country. You can even have dictators and be relevant. Socialism does not and will never work.
     
  5. Eraserhead macrumors G4

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    And also the most economically successful country over the past 40 years.
     
  6. mikef07, Aug 12, 2019 at 11:34 AM
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 12, 2019 at 6:48 PM

    mikef07 macrumors 6502

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    #6
    What I said. "The only relevant countries are capitalist or communist"and no they are not more successful than we are. Not even close.
     
  7. Eraserhead macrumors G4

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    #7
    What about India? Or is that also irrelevant?

    And if “communism” can succeed economically more than “capitalism” why exactly is it an issue if social freedom can be maintained?
     
  8. mikef07 macrumors 6502

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    Not relevant. India could fall off the face of the Earth and things would move along fine.

    There are 3 relevant countries that decide all in this world for the most part. Russia, China, and the US.

    In the 1700s and 1800s the US wasn't relevant. It was pretty much Europe.
     
  9. Eraserhead macrumors G4

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    #9
    India is the 5th biggest economy at market exchange rates and the 3rd biggest in PPP dollars. Some irrelevancy.
     
  10. mikef07 macrumors 6502

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    #10
    Again if India fell off the Earth it would be a blip. If one of the big 3 did it would influence economies, military power, other governments, etc.

    Everything India does can be picked up by someone else. Short term pain? A little.
     
  11. macsmurf macrumors 65816

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    #11
    Why don't you decide to have less crime then?
     
  12. Eraserhead macrumors G4

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    #12
    India has a population of 1.3 billion, is the birthplace of 3 major religions and has nuclear weapons. I don’t think you can really claim it’s unimportant.

    Besides who are the “big three”?
     
  13. mikef07 macrumors 6502

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    That is like saying why don't you decide to breathe less air. You cannot legislate what people do if they have no regard for law.
    --- Post Merged, Aug 12, 2019 at 11:42 AM ---

    No I can claim that since they are irrelevant. Turn on the news. 1.3 Billion purchasing less would cause some short term pain. Governments surely wouldn't move based on India being gone. If India fell off the Earth it would be a blip. It s US, Russia, and China. Everyone else is replaceable easily.
     
  14. macsmurf macrumors 65816

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    It seems weird that an irrelevant country such as Norway can have virtually no violent crime or prison population compared to the US, considering you decide all in the world.
     
  15. Eraserhead macrumors G4

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    #15
    Thats because the US media is bias.

    In the 1700s and 1800s for most of the time the most important country was China, then from ~1820 Britain.
     
  16. mikef07 macrumors 6502

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    OK. Doesn't seem weird to me.
    --- Post Merged, Aug 12, 2019 at 11:46 AM ---
    Bias or not I watch world news, uS news, etc and India is irrelevant. Even in those biased markets I see news about Russia, China, etc because they are relevant and can move economies, governments, etc. China, Europe whatever so this isn't a US is best and we have been relevant forever thing. US has been relevant since early 1900s on, but US could have disappeared in 1850 for example and it would have been a blip also.
     
  17. Peterkro, Aug 12, 2019 at 1:07 PM
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2019 at 1:13 PM

    Peterkro macrumors 68020

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    #17
    Please do.Having spend time in Norway as well as Florida and other U.S. states there is no comparision Florida in particular is a ********.
    I know in your little parish pump view of the world you may think Norway is not relevant the other 96% of people who are not American (this is not to say all Americans are one eyed but a lot are ) like Norway and it's people and the good they do in the world.
    It has the largest sovereign wealth fund in the world and while it invests in capitalist enterprises it at least tries to do so ethically.That is 1.4% of total global holdings.
    --- Post Merged, Aug 12, 2019 at 1:12 PM ---
    And if the U.S. fell of the face of the world (seen as we are dragging up bizarre simplistic fantasys ) everybody would be far better off the biggest warmonger,polluter and gobbler of resources and we'd all be a lot freer .
     
  18. satcomer macrumors 603

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    #18
    Then please the rise of no-go areas in your Country not an alarm? CR fires in Sweden is another case you should pay attention too!
     
  19. vrDrew thread starter macrumors 65816

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    #19

    Sorry.

    But you imply don't know what you are taking about.

    Don't get me wrong. I don't think that Norway's brand of socialism would be a good fit for the United States. But to claim that socialism doesn't work is to ignore and fly in the face of available evidence.

    People in Norway live better lives than people in the United States. They live longer, happier lives. Less troubled by inequality, gun violence, and a host of other factors than comparable people in the US.

    That might be inconvenient for individuals 100% committed to a certain political philosophy. But a fact that less dogmatic individuals might learn some lessons from.
     
  20. mikef07 macrumors 6502

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    And yet no one wants to go (live) there. Go figure. Sorry but facts don't support it. Period. It's like saying more people would rather live in Delaware than in CA yet the facts show a hell of a lot more live in CA. Try again.
     
  21. Peterkro macrumors 68020

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    #21
    Norway has a history of emphasising humanitarian efforts regarding both donations and admitting refugees from foreign countries. Since 2013, Norway has granted citizenship to over 260 percent of its “fair share” of Syrian refugees based on an estimation by Red Cross and Red Crescent groups.
     
  22. pshufd macrumors 65816

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    #22
    I've chatted with people from Norway and have studied some aspects of their economy.

    From what I can tell, the people there are happy, well-educated, have medical care and they are well-off economically.

    They are an oil-based economy but they are working on transitioning to other areas which has resulted in weaker industrial production numbers. Part of their economic success is also the performance of their Sovereign Wealth Fund which invests in a lot of United States growth companies. It is the largest Soverign Wealth Fund in the world at around a trillion dollars. I'd say that Singapore is second with two Soverign Wealth Funds totaling about $800 billion. Singapore may very well be the wealthiest country in the world (per capita).

    As mentioned elsewhere, Norway is a homogeneous society. Some of the homogeneous areas of the United States perform better than many other areas of the United States.
     
  23. DanielDD macrumors 6502

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    #23
    Coming from the poorest country in Western Europe: 15 years ago, most people would put the US as a top emigration destination. Right now, most people would rather prefer to move to other European countries.
    People do not perceive the US to be a good place to move to. Social mobility is very limited compared to European countries. While wages are nominally better, there are a lot of hidden expenses that take their fair share of earnings, most importantly healthcare and education. The only places people would consider moving to are insanely expensive.
    Besides, the quality of life you get here is much better. European countries are much safer, we have a lot better infrastructure, and much more economic security.

    European countries are capitalist while providing social welfare to their citizens. This is the definition of a social democracy.
    And please, stop with the Venezuela and North Korea boogeymen. Those two countries spend less on social programmers (per capita, as a percentage of GDP) than any advanced democracy. And this includes the US.
     
  24. pshufd macrumors 65816

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    #24
    It's rather bizarre that you look at the United States as a country when comparing European countries given the wide variance in the characteristics of states; more akin to the variances in European countries.
     
  25. DanielDD macrumors 6502

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    #25
    My point was: the people in the least developed part of Western Europe do not want to move to the US - even to the more developed parts.
     

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