Take note GOPers, a conservative government in Germany further advances gay rights

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by AhmedFaisal, Aug 22, 2012.

  1. AhmedFaisal Guest

    #1
    http://www.tagesschau.de/inland/homoehe162.html

    Any areas in legal texts that refer to marriage, spouses etc. are now edited to add civil unions and civil union spouses to further ensure equality. A small step, yet remarkable that a conservative government is taking it. The two big topics excluded right now are taxation and adoption rights but even there is now movement within the conservative party with a number of members of the house pushing their party to move also on this issue. The party is reluctant at the moment but the debate is held in a very civilized manner and even conservatives have told in particular the catholic church to stay out of it if they have nothing helpful to add. Considering how aggressively vocal Rome is in this debate in Germany, I commend a party that carries the Christian label in the name that it resists that pressure and remains open to the debate and moves, albeit in small steps, in the right direction.
     
  2. Sydde macrumors 68020

    Sydde

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    #2
    The meaning of "conservative" is vastly different in other parts of the world. Europe is already a more laid back place as it is, the conservatives there just want to keep it that way.
     
  3. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #3
    Germany is a great place. I miss it dearly- cried when I left after a visit.
     
  4. MorphingDragon macrumors 603

    MorphingDragon

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    #4
    When I was in Germany I missed out by one year to be old enough to go to a Rave.

    I was not happy. >:I
     
  5. niuniu macrumors 68020

    niuniu

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    #5
    Germany are really taking charge in Europe, not just on the Euro, but it seems with social progression. Circumcision and now this. It's impressive stuff.

    The complexity of EU law means that when we have German travellers in other EU States who settle for a while, and are then confronted by the lack of a right conferred in their nation State - it has the opportunity to go through the courts who may seek harmonization. Even if the case failed, it can still publicly raise the issue in a State and gain political momentum for change.

    What's good for Germany can be good for all of us eventually.
     
  6. leekohler, Aug 22, 2012
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2012

    leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #6
    Germans live with the specter of the Holocaust every day. I feel they have more than made up for it. They will never forget, I can say that with absolutely no uncertainty. The world won't let them. Nazi Germany is known as the archetype of evil, and countless films and documentaries will never let them forget.

    The Wall came down and wreaked havoc on their economy, but they survived and did not ever once revert to what they were during the Holocaust. They learned from the past and have built a great country and even better economy.

    We should acknowledge that. I'm sure it's no secret, given my name, that I am of German ancestry. Going to my home country touched me in ways I can't express. Going there felt like going home. For all it's terrible and wonderful past, it floored me when I got there because it's where I came from. I have never felt such a connection anywhere. People walked up to me and spoke German, because they assumed I was German. I had to get out my phrase book and apologize. "Oh, good, I can practice English. Surely, you must have German heritage, yes?" Yes, and I was made to feel very welcome.

    As a child I was constantly taught about the Holocaust, that I was of German ancestry, and how important it was that nothing like that ever happen again. It was never a guilt thing. It was more a "learn from our past mistakes" thing.
     
  7. Gold89 macrumors 6502

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    #7
    It's worth repeating David Cameron (like him or not) on gay marriage as well:

     
  8. Happybunny macrumors 68000

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    #8

    The Netherlands did this all in 2001.:D

    We were the first country to grant full marriage status to same sex couples.
     
  9. AhmedFaisal thread starter Guest

    #9
    Goes to show how antiquated and out of touch US conservativism is with the rest of western world including their counterparts in the EU.
     
  10. Bug-Creator macrumors 6502

    Bug-Creator

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    #10
    Sorry to rain on that parade...

    Miss L-S does not speak for the govermentm she doesn't even speak for her party.

    The FDP will make Mr Ryan look like a socialist when it comes to the economy but once was a real liberal party (not to be confused with what americans consider "liberals"). L-S is pretty much all thats left of it and pretty isolated in her party.

    On the other side we have the knee-jerk conservatives of the CSU (some of them can get pretty close to the lunatics like Mr Akin) also part of the coaltion who have allready protested loudly against L-S plans.

    @leekohler (guess that was leeköhler once :p)
    As much as I would like to aggree with you about germans never going back to their darkest times after 1990 I still feel the need to suggest googling for :
    NSU (not the car)
    Rostock Lichtenhagen
    Hoyerswerda
    (probraly even more)

    The real interesting part "conservatives" should be reading bout germany these days is:
    http://www.tagesschau.de/wirtschaft/bip148.html

    Yep all things acconted (federal&local budgets and social insurances) Germany made a plus of 8,300,000,000 Euro from january to june this year.
    Thats despite:
    - having universal healthcare for all citizens
    - providing basic pensions for the vast bulk of it's elderly
    - giving unlimited (people don't drop out after x years) welfare for needy
    And and and

    There are offcourse a few things Germany could learn from the US, like having an uncondional minimum wage (however low that may be) and maybe cutting down on red tape when one wants to start a buisness.
     
  11. AhmedFaisal, Aug 23, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 23, 2012

    AhmedFaisal thread starter Guest

    #11
    She's secretary of justice, so she speaks more for the government then say Horst Seehofer, the governor of Bavaria. I know her personally as she is from my former hometown and had my vote on multiple occasions. That woman is nothing but savvy. She won't come out like that unless she is sure to get what she wants and she has a majority supporting her.

    Yes, unfortunately much of the party has abandoned it's former civil liberties/small government stance and has moved towards becoming an extended lobbying arm for big business. I voted for them in the last election because I was duped into believing they actually would do what they promised, cut down on buerocracy and over-regulation (which is not deregulation like the US but harmonizing and simplifying laws to reduce buerocractic burden) and make sure that less money disappears in the government machine but arrives back to benefit tax payers. And I wouldn't say that L-S will remain isolated. Roesler and colleagues are on their way out, the way they are getting slapped around by the voters.

    The irony is that most of Seehofer's shenanigans aren't even that popular in Bavaria either, just that the Bavarian social democrats and green party have an absolut lack of credible candidates. The sad reality of Bavarian politics is that not the ruling parties are strong but the opposition is weak. Look at Munich. Christian Ude is an incompentent bumbling buffoon but the CSU is more interested in tearing itself apart than building a credible platform with strong candidates. The same applies in the opposite direction for state politics where the green party and the social democrats are more busy fighting each other and ideological trench warfare than building a credible alternative. It's why I haven't voted in state politics since I had the right to vote.

    I find this a little unfair. Yes, each of these are horrible incidences but show me where in western Germany these kind of things still achieve lasting significant representation in the legislative process. Nowhere. East Germany is going through the growning pains that West Germany went through in the 50ies. As such, the trend has been towards the brownshirts loosing ground in East Germany with few exceptions, not gain ground.


    Germany has many problems, culturally and yes, in our political system as well, but I give the country one big credit, it is willing to take on painful discussions and tackle them until they are resolved and the "losing" party for the most part accepts the outcome. So it was with abortion, stem cell research and the progress made so far on gay marriage.
     
  12. Bug-Creator macrumors 6502

    Bug-Creator

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    #12
    On paper yes ...
    ... in reality: She is just a small voice mostly ignore in one small coalition party, while Seehofer is the one calling the shots in the other small coalition party ....

    In the end things will be delayed (read ignored) by "Mutti" till well after the next elections.
     
  13. AhmedFaisal thread starter Guest

    #13
    I think you are underestimating her influence and overestimating Seehofers. Do you honestly think family secretary Schroeder would have behaved like she did in the debate on the homecare-rebate without AM tacit approval? Why do you think Seehofer is making such a big stink about it? It's because so far he never got what he wanted at any time in any major topic for the CSU. Don't mistake obnoxiousness for real influence.
    On the flipside, L-S so far has successfully pushed through her agenda on multiple occasions.
     
  14. likemyorbs macrumors 68000

    likemyorbs

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    #14
    So then you must be feeling pretty jealous of me since I'll be in Germany 2 weeks from now....
     
  15. simsaladimbamba

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    located
    #15
    If you are visiting Berlin, avoid the Simon-Dach-Straße please.
     
  16. ericrwalker macrumors 68030

    ericrwalker

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    #16

    I tried to explain that a few days ago, most everyone didn't believe me.
     
  17. niuniu macrumors 68020

    niuniu

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    #17
  18. ericrwalker macrumors 68030

    ericrwalker

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    #18
  19. likemyorbs macrumors 68000

    likemyorbs

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    #19
    I won't be in Berlin, I'll be in Munich. I have some family there that decided to immigrate to Germany instead of the US, so we'll be staying with them.
     
  20. AhmedFaisal thread starter Guest

    #20
    Then I will recommend spending a day at Therme Erding.
     
  21. eastercat macrumors 68040

    eastercat

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    #21
    When the conservatives in Germany understand that health care is a basic right, you know they're a lot more social friendly than ours.
     
  22. thewitt macrumors 68020

    thewitt

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    #22
    Most Republicans are ambiguous at best on gay rights.

    It's not what we are passionate about.

    Lower cost of government and the end to social program spending that's bankrupting the country are much more important.

    Equal rights without special rights is fine...
     
  23. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #23
    This is clearly rubbish. It may be what you are passionate about but clearly a lot of Republicans are against gay rights.
     
  24. vega07 macrumors 65816

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    #24
    There is no logic at all to this statement.
     
  25. Moyank24 macrumors 601

    Moyank24

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    #25
    Of course you are ambiguous. Who cares, as long as they aren't taking your rights away.

    I bet most republicans wouldn't be ambiguous if they tried to take your guns away....

    And please. Equal rights without special rights? Could you be any more brainwashed? I'd ask you to explain the special rights, but I'd feel bad for making you embarrass yourself further.

    Hypocrisy. It's what Conservatives do best.
     

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