Talk about an embarrassment to humanity.


0098386

Suspended
Jan 18, 2005
21,552
2,886
not thats not good or anything but its a brilliant reflection of todays society.

this game, a blatant racist game, gets us all annoyed. but similarily GTA:SA with all this 'hot coffee' stuff has more backers. sure racism is **** but so is killing people, peddling drugs and showing porn. its all in a game. and its so crap. all of it. and people need to see that sure most people dont like racism but a (probably smaller) group of people dont like the things in GTA either only the GTA players get uptight when it gets upgraded to AO.
sad world we're in.

give me Kirby any day.
 

mrgreen4242

macrumors 601
Feb 10, 2004
4,352
1
I don't see the problem here. No one is MAKING anyone play this game, read about it, have anything to with it. If this is someone else's idea of fun and what they believe, then more power to them. I mean, do the satanist get all up in arms about Doom since we are killing demons?

"I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it."
 

devilot

Moderator emeritus
May 1, 2005
15,532
2
mrgreen4242 said:
I don't see the problem here. No one is MAKING anyone play this game, read about it, have anything to with it. If this is someone else's idea of fun and what they believe, then more power to them. I mean, do the satanist get all up in arms about Doom since we are killing demons?

"I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it."
Killing demons and killing other humans based on their ethnicity are two very different things.
 

booksacool1

macrumors 6502
Oct 17, 2004
293
1
Australia
mrgreen4242 said:
I don't see the problem here. No one is MAKING anyone play this game, read about it, have anything to with it. If this is someone else's idea of fun and what they believe, then more power to them. I mean, do the satanist get all up in arms about Doom since we are killing demons?

"I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it."
Killing demons is fine because demons are "evil". They typically pose a threat to humanity, depending on the game storyline.
However, this cant apply to racially different groups.
Otherwise, are you saying that different groups are demons?
I am hoping this game is just a joke/stunt.
 

mrgreen4242

macrumors 601
Feb 10, 2004
4,352
1
devilot76 said:
Killing demons and killing other humans based on their ethnicity are two very different things.
I'm sure satanists would disagree with you.

booksacool1 said:
Killing demons is fine because demons are "evil". They typically pose a threat to humanity, depending on the game storyline.
However, this cant apply to racially different groups.
Otherwise, are you saying that different groups are demons?
I am hoping this game is just a joke/stunt.
Again, I am sure satanist would disagree with you. I am also pretty sure that the people who made the game would disagree with you that these racial groups pose less threat to humanity that demons do. Just because you believe the same thing most people you know do doesn't mean it's right.

MBHockey said:
So you don't think the simple fact that people actually made this game is revolting in itself?
Do I think that this game is absurd? Yes.
Do I think that the creators are probably in need of some professional help? Yes.
Do I think that this sort of product should not be allowed to exist? No.
Do I think that people should have the right to refuse to buy it, sell it, go to stores that sell it? Of course.
Do I think that it is sadder that people want to completely ban forms of speech they do not agree with than the fact that this game exists? YES.
 

mad jew

Moderator emeritus
Apr 3, 2004
32,194
6
Adelaide, Australia
mrgreen4242 said:
I don't see the problem here.

Then an hour later:


mrgreen4242 said:
Do I think that this game is absurd? Yes.
Do I think that the creators are probably in need of some professional help? Yes.
Do I think that this sort of product should not be allowed to exist? No.
Do I think that people should have the right to refuse to buy it, sell it, go to stores that sell it? Of course.
Do I think that it is sadder that people want to completely ban forms of speech they do not agree with than the fact that this game exists? YES.

So you do see the problem here then? :confused:
 

mrgreen4242

macrumors 601
Feb 10, 2004
4,352
1
mad jew said:
Then an hour later:





So you do see the problem here then? :confused:
I can see why someone wouldn't want to buy it, play it, or see it. I certainly do not. However, I do not see why it is a problem that it simply exists.
 

irmongoose

macrumors 68030
I am a supporter of free speech. From the bottom of my heart.

At the same time, I am absolutely against racism with the same passion (or anti-passion) with which I support free speech.

Racism is vile and inhumane. Any racist person and/or supporter of any racist acts should be burned. Cut from throat to crotch with a rotten butter knife.

Seriously, you don't understand how this kind of stuff makes my blood boil. I am literally shaking with disgust, hate, and anger as I type this.





irmongoose
 

devilot

Moderator emeritus
May 1, 2005
15,532
2
mrgreen4242 said:
I can see why someone wouldn't want to buy it, play it, or see it. I certainly do not. However, I do not see why it is a problem that it simply exists.
Just a thought... if you were to take that and instead of an ethnically discriminative game/ world-view substitute HIV/AIDs--

HIV/AIDs:
"I can see why someone wouldn't want to contract it, pass it on, or know someone suffering from it.

I certainly do not.

However, I do not see why it is a problem that it simply exists."

Interesting... :( Also, you're argument is in favor of free speech. No problem w/ that, but the supporters of this game are not only NOT allowing for "free speech" of the people they dislike, they are advocating the killing of those people.

Sorry, I'm not being very clear or concise. Perhaps someone who can somewhat understand the point I'm trying to make, can re-state it.
 

mad jew

Moderator emeritus
Apr 3, 2004
32,194
6
Adelaide, Australia
mrgreen4242 said:
I can see why someone wouldn't want to buy it, play it, or see it. I certainly do not. However, I do not see why it is a problem that it simply exists.

Well, do you have kids? I know I wouldn't want young people playing this for a start. It's teaching them to be racist. Sure, you can overcome this with a rating system, but lets be honest, that wont stop them playing it.

Okay, I'm not trying to attack you but it's an attempt at explaining just one reason why this game should be abolished.
 

mrgreen4242

macrumors 601
Feb 10, 2004
4,352
1
irmongoose said:
I am a supporter of free speech. From the bottom of my heart.

At the same time, I am absolutely against racism with the same passion (or anti-passion) with which I support free speech.

Racism is vile and inhumane. Any racist person and/or supporter of any racist acts should be burned. Cut from throat to crotch with a rotten butter knife.

Seriously, you don't understand how this kind of stuff makes my blood boil. I am literally shaking with disgust, hate, and anger as I type this.


irmongoose
So you only support free speech when it's something you agree with (albeit in this limit topic area)? That's what I don't understand. My point is that while I don't personally believe something, I do believe that others have the right to think that way and to express that belief in a reasonable manner (reasonable meaning it doesn't infringe on the rights of another human).

This game is a perfect example. If the crazy anti-semetic white power types want to express their hatred for non-catholic non-white people, then they are free to do so. I am free to say that I dislike the game, or that I want nothing to do with it. I am free to wish that someday all people could come to respect and live in harmony with one another. I am not free to tell them they cannot have their belief.
 

mrgreen4242

macrumors 601
Feb 10, 2004
4,352
1
devilot76 said:
Just a thought... if you were to take that and instead of an ethnically discriminative game/ world-view substitute HIV/AIDs--

HIV/AIDs:
"I can see why someone wouldn't want to contract it, pass it on, or know someone suffering from it.

I certainly do not.

However, I do not see why it is a problem that it simply exists."

Interesting... :( Also, you're argument is in favor of free speech. No problem w/ that, but the supporters of this game are not only NOT allowing for "free speech" of the people they dislike, they are advocating the killing of those people.

Sorry, I'm not being very clear or concise. Perhaps someone who can somewhat understand the point I'm trying to make, can re-state it.
I fail to see the logic in your comparison. You can't simply insert another word in place of mine and have it make sense... this isn't MadLibs. The creators of this game are PEOPLE with RIGHTS. AIDs/HIV is a disease, transmitted by a virus, which lacks any sort of basic rights protection. Maybe I misunderstand you, but what you are saying doesn't make sense.

Saying aloud that you think they should be dead, while a bit rude, is not harming them in any way. This game is not denying anyone of any rights. Nothing is stopping the groups who are targeted in this game from voicing their disapproval, making a counter-propiganda game, or expressign any idea they want. It in no way diminished the free speech of any one.

madjew said:
Well, do you have kids? I know I wouldn't want young people playing this for a start. It's teaching them to be racist. Sure, you can overcome this with a rating system, but lets be honest, that wont stop them playing it.

Okay, I'm not trying to attack you but it's an attempt at explaining just one reason why this game should be abolished.
Nope, no kids. The wife and I are hoping for one soon, though. When I DO have kids, I will not be relying on you, this forum, the government, or a media publishing company to censor things from them, though. That's MY job as a parent.

And, honestly, depending on the age of the child, I wouldn't keep the existence of this game a secret. I wouldn't want them to play it necessarily, but I would hope that I was a good enough father to have taught my kid WHY this idea is wrong, not just that it is 'not allowed', and also brought them up well enough to respect the fact that while WE BELIEVE the ideas expressed in the game are wrong, we DO NOT have the right to stop someone else from having and expressing that belief.

Sorry, but the "will someone think of the children" bit is overused and flawed. Someone should think of the children, and it should be their PARENTS.
 

mad jew

Moderator emeritus
Apr 3, 2004
32,194
6
Adelaide, Australia
1. This is an international forum and "free speech" is largely an American (or at least a Western) concept. Ironically, it is not upheld on MacRumors. :p

2. It's idealistic to think that free speech exists. Sure, you can say what you like to whomever you like but there will always be consequences of what you have said.

3. It's dangerous to try to make free speech an infallible rule or law. By definition, making an infallible law (one that can never be broken) means that it must therefore override others such as, say, anti-harrassment rules/laws...

4. How does political correctness fit in with free speech? Is it even possible to have both?

This topic may be getting a little too political for my liking. I may well have to go off to bed soon.
 

mrgreen4242

macrumors 601
Feb 10, 2004
4,352
1
mad jew said:
1. This is an international forum and "free speech" is largely an American (or at least a Western) concept. Ironically, it is not upheld on MacRumors. :p

2. It's idealistic to think that free speech exists. Sure, you can say what you like to whomever you like but there will always be consequences of what you have said.

3. It's dangerous to try to make free speech an infallible rule or law. By definition, making an infallible law (one that can never be broken) means that it must therefore override others such as, say, anti-harrassment rules/laws...

4. How does political correctness fit in with free speech? Is it even possible to have both?

This topic may be getting a little too political for my liking. I may well have to go off to bed soon.
I am applying American free speech law/rights/ideas as this was an American game, from an American group, and the article linked (at least the wired one) was from an American based publication.

I agree with you that other societies have differing views on speech, but in this case it seemed appropriate to use the American ones.

Free speech is an ideal, I agree, and it's one that I feel is important to protect.

I also agree that free speech cannot be made infallible. There are rights even more important than speech. The right to life is one of them, in my opinion. If your action deprives someone of a more important right, then it must, sadly, take a back seat.

In this case, this game is NOT killing anyone (unless they are throwing the CD at people), and it is not telling people to go kill someone any more than Mario Bros. is telling kids to go stomp on turtles.

I agree, it's getting pretty intense in here, which is mostly my fault. I'll bow out now as well.
 

Johnny Rico

macrumors 6502
Feb 17, 2005
267
0
Terrible, terrible graphics. The people who made this game should be ashamed of themselves. 3D rendering has come so far since 1997...
 

GFLPraxis

macrumors 604
Original poster
Mar 17, 2004
7,091
404
Woah there, people, calm down before we have a flame war.

Whatever your stance on whether the game should be allowed to exist or not, I think we all agree the creators are the scum of the Earth. No need to beat each other up about it.

BTW; I don't know if this is necessarily a 'free speech' issue. If the people REALLY believe that all non-whites (IMO these racists are the real sub-humans...I'm absolutely disgusted) should die and intend to kill them, aren't they guilty of death threats?
 

jadam

macrumors 6502a
Jan 23, 2002
699
1
GFLPraxis said:
BTW; I don't know if this is necessarily a 'free speech' issue. If the people REALLY believe that all non-whites (IMO these racists are the real sub-humans...I'm absolutely disgusted) should die and intend to kill them, aren't they guilty of death threats?

Shouldn't all the liberals who say bush should die also be guilty of death threats?

No, Free Speech buddy, if people get their jollies off of doing stupid **** like that, then ohh well, whatever floats their boat. As long as they aren't actually hurting someone, let them be.

btw, some of you really need to reread what you write, it is very very absurd and hypocritical

Look at what raggedjimmi said.
this game, a blatant racist game, gets us all annoyed. but similarily GTA:SA with all this 'hot coffee' stuff has more backers. sure racism is **** but so is killing people, peddling drugs and showing porn. its all in a game. and its so crap. all of it. and people need to see that sure most people dont like racism but a (probably smaller) group of people dont like the things in GTA either only the GTA players get uptight when it gets upgraded to AO.
sad world we're in.
quoted because its true.

And yes quoted because its even truer

give me Kirby any day.
:)
 

pubwvj

macrumors 68000
Oct 1, 2004
1,891
202
Mountains of Vermont
devilot76 said:
Killing demons and killing other humans based on their ethnicity are two very different things.
Uhhmmm.... Often the definition in a society of "demons" is outsiders. The two may not be as different as you would like to claim. One of the wonderful justifications for killing people in war is the enemy are "not human", "not worthy", "not true believers", etc.

Don't get me wrong - I'm no peacenik. I'm all for war and the enemy can be called demons for all I care. But don't go around deceiving yourself. That is dangerious.