Tamir Rice shooter fired, finally

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by SusanK, May 30, 2017.

  1. SusanK macrumors 68000

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    #1
    Updated 11:55 AM ET, Tue May 30, 2017

    Edit: Title should be Tamir Rice Shooter fired, finally

    (CNN)Cleveland police Officer Timothy Loehmann, who fatally shot 12-year-old Tamir Rice in November 2014, was fired Tuesday after an investigation found that he was guilty of violating rules when he applied to be a cadet, Cleveland Director of Public Safety Michael McGrath said. The officer who was with Loehmann when Rice was shot, Officer Frank Garmback, will be suspended for 10 days starting Wednesday -- and will be required to attend additional tactical training -- after being found guilty of rules violations relating to tactics deployed that day, McGrath said.



    http://www.cnn.com/2017/05/30/us/cleveland-tamir-rice-police-officers-disciplined/
     
  2. jkcerda macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

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    #2
    he should be in jail.

    anyways you can edit the title by clicking on the little "gear" shown on the upper right.
     
  3. JayMysterio macrumors 6502

    JayMysterio

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    #3
    I'm not really finding comfort in that the reason he was fired for killing a boy in 2 seconds after exiting a patrol car, was because he lied on his application. :mad:
     
  4. DrewDaHilp1 macrumors 6502a

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  5. jkcerda macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

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    #5
    probably just an excuse to fire him.
     
  6. DrewDaHilp1 macrumors 6502a

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    Oh no doubt. The shooting was at least 33% his fault. 33% laid at his training officer for closing the distance, 33% for the Tamir and his parents. We could Monday morning quarterback it but it was a poo sandwich from the get go.
     
  7. jkcerda macrumors 6502

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    #7
    kid was pretty stupid for sure, but IIRC a friend gave him the replica. not sure the parents knew. his sister was there and today everyone has a cell phone, calling the parents to let them know Tamir was playing a stupid game could have stopped it.
     
  8. JayMysterio macrumors 6502

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    #8
    In a state that has open carry gun laws, our country's fetish for firearms, it would seem that a little kid playing with a gun makes him at fault. No kid plays with guns here. It's also the kids fault that a 911 call was made, even stating that the gun was probably fake. How stupid of the kid, playing with guns, kids don't do that. It's his fault he didn't respond respond promptly when a police cruiser just pulls up on you. And of course, don't leave out, the kid should have responded to commands from the police supposedly made from the officer in the 11/2 to 2 seconds before he shot him dead.

    No talking to the kid was out of the question, it's his fault he was probably an imminent danger...

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/blog...its-tamir-rices-fault/?utm_term=.ebaf5cfe998a

    Hell, it's probably also the kid's fault he didn't sidestep the bullets like he's seen when people play with guns in movies.

    Sigh.
     
  9. DrewDaHilp1 macrumors 6502a

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    #9
    Nothing wrong with playing with toy guns. Pointing them at people is the problem. 1:10 he's pointing the gun at a passerby. His parent are partially to blame for not teaching him that you don't point a gun; toy or not at anything you're not willing to destroy.
    [​IMG]
    Which one is the real gun? You have less than a second to decide to shoot or not if a person pulls it on you.


    His training officer is partially to blame because he should have never pulled the vehicle so close to a possible armed person.
    He is at fault because it was he that pulled the trigger.
     
  10. yaxomoxay macrumors 68000

    yaxomoxay

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    #10
    This. I am shocked that the cops didn't stage the area but just got that close to him. That is on the cops for sure. Sad that the kid had to go this way, but I don't blame the cops either for shooting. They had less than a second to react and a gun usually doesn't care if holding it is an adult or a kid.
     
  11. steve knight macrumors 68020

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    #11
    kids are stupid thats why they are kids still. 12 year old are not known for critical thinking skills. in this case the looser of a cop did not have critical thinking skills easier.
     
  12. DrewDaHilp1 macrumors 6502a

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    So a tighter cop would have done a better job?
     
  13. NT1440 macrumors G4

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    #13
    Less than a second because they were ****ing stupid enough to pull up within feet of someone they thought had a weapon in hand.

    We like to harp a lot on common sense these days, but when it comes to police officers who put themselves in the seemingly dangerous situation it's all fine and dandy, just another black kid dead...no big deal.

    'Muricka

    :mad:
     
  14. DrewDaHilp1 macrumors 6502a

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    #14
    There was no they in there. One officer was driving. Since yax quoted me. I'd say it's safe to say that we both place blame on the officers.
     
  15. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

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    #15
    I'd imagine as the driver was riding up into the park his partner could have said "hey....what the **** are you doing driving directly into what we assume is an active shooter situation".
     
  16. steve knight macrumors 68020

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    #16
    well maybe his morals were just loose?
     
  17. JayMysterio, May 30, 2017
    Last edited: May 30, 2017

    JayMysterio macrumors 6502

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    #17
    I'm sure you can remember as a child, you probably pointed a toy gun at someone. Why? Because you could. There's no real consequence to it, you as a child can't kill someone with a fake gun, and you certainly wouldn't expect to really lose your life. Now I know you incredibly responsible individuals would never point a gun at someone, even a picture of a gun, but if you did break this egregious faux pas, did you think you might get shot? Really? Never pointed a toy gun at someone? Really? Yeah, that's something that kid should have paid his life for.

    That aside, you're being Cleveland prosecutor generous about the dangerous situation the officers did cause.

    The officers made absolutely NO effort to diffuse the situation, if the situation became a moment of split decision making it's one of their own creation. Or as the judge put it... the judge being Judge Ronald B. Adrine who ruled there was probable cause to charge the officer for murder...

    This was a situation made deadly, by poor judgement on the officers. You cannot tell me in every instance where there is a toy gun or replica involved, there's a death involved as well. Real guns can be involved with multiple officers responding and yet another shooter can be brought in alive.

    http://www.cnn.com/2017/05/25/us/comicon-phoenix-armed-suspect/

    That's how a situation is handled. The man had intentions of killing, brought real guns into an area with prop weaponry to add to confusion, the police were tipped, and somehow managed to resist firing within seconds even though they were among the stated ( Jason David Frank of the Power Rangers being another :confused: ) targets. Yes the specific situations are different as well as the results, but it shows what happens when police do not escalate a situation, even when they are truly in danger. Especially one that could have been much worse.

    This is not a one third hair splitting situation to make sure the victim is blamed yet again.

    Side note, the DoJ's view on Cleveland police at times...

    https://www.justice.gov/file/180576/download
     
  18. niploteksi macrumors regular

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    #18
    That was what I was thinking. It seemed completely idiotic pulling up like that. Especially if it had been a real gun.

    And whatever, it's still just a kid. That shouldn't have happened.
     
  19. Eraserhead macrumors G4

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    #19
    Given the police in Shetland where there has never been an active shooter situation before or since handled it without shooting the police in a US city should have done so too.

    Unless you're saying the British police are just so superior that even remote islands have better police than America.
     
  20. yaxomoxay macrumors 68000

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    #20
    It is a big deal. Why are you trying to make it like people don't think it is? First page on CNN for days, we're discussing it here, there is/was a trial etc. so if there is one thing that we all agree on is that it is a big deal.

    The cops obviously made a mistake (either by negligence, by choice, or by erroneous training). That doesn't authorize the kid to point a fake gun without the red safety paint to cops and expect no consequences because the cops were at a distance that was (allegedly) not correct. Negligence/mistakes on one side doesn't translate in permission to the other side.

    Fake guns that look like real guns on the streets are a HUGE problem, people don't realize how big of a problem it is. The way the kid died is sad, but I can't blame the cops for the actual shooting considered how real the gun looked.
     
  21. DrewDaHilp1 macrumors 6502a

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    #21
    I'm not familiar with the Shetland case off the top of my head. I posted the videos, I placed the blame where I believe it to be placed. An ignorant kid was pointing a realistic looking gun at people. A stupid cop pulled too close for the type of call he received. An ignorant kid reached from his waistband, and another cop made a split second decision that ended a life and his career.
     
  22. yaxomoxay macrumors 68000

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    #22
    It's precisely because Shetland never had a shooting that cops can be more relaxed. A real-looking BB gun in Shetland probably causes different reactions than a BB gun in Chicago.
     
  23. niploteksi macrumors regular

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    #23
    That and that people or the police actually expects it to be a toy gun when a kid is waving it around.
     
  24. yaxomoxay macrumors 68000

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    #24
    Not sure. When I grew up fake guns were pretty easy to spot, and they all had the red safety paint strip. And my father was quite... forceful in making sure that I didn't point a fake gun, any fake gun as fake as it might look, to anyone. He destroyed one of my favorite guns when I was seven or eight when I pointed it to my sister.
     
  25. DrewDaHilp1 macrumors 6502a

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    #25
    I got the talk on proper gun use as a little kid. My parents were gun neutral we didn't have any in the home. I remember when I was little that talk got reinforced after this happened. That same scenario even made it into Die Hard.
     

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