Taxes are at 60 year low

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by mcrain, Feb 7, 2011.

  1. mcrain macrumors 68000

    mcrain

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    #1
    Maybe spending is only half of the problem. Fiscal conservatism demands a discussion about increased revenue, would it not. Or, have I missed the economics 101 lesson on how fiscal conservatism somehow morphed into supply side/voodoo economics instead of responsible fiscal management.

    That doesn't say anything about only cutting spending. In fact, it seems to imply spending is fine so long as it is paid for. So, that means if you have a deficit, you can cut spending OR increase revenues. Right?
     
  2. StruckANerve macrumors 6502

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    #2
    I believe it. My wife and I were shocked by how little we payed in Federal Income Tax for the last year. The amount was so low I almost thought there had been some kind of mistake and we would end up owing more when we finally do our taxes.
     
  3. fivepoint, Feb 7, 2011
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2011

    fivepoint macrumors 65816

    fivepoint

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    #3
    It's NOT a 'revenue' problem.

    [​IMG]



    It's a spending problem.

    [​IMG]

    We've been living beyond our means for far too long, it's time to come back to reality and realize that the government can't take care of us from cradle to grave - nor should we want it to. It's time to realize that government taking from the productive members of society to subsidize the non-productive parts is hurting us all in the end. It's time to get back to our American values of personal liberty, prosperity, private charity, and avoid the ash heap of tyranny and socialism endless other civilizations have slipped towards.

    We will end this spending spree one way or another. Either we grow up and realize we can't have it all... or economics and basic math will catch up with us soon enough and force reality upon us. Neither one is easy... but one is particularly catastrophic and particularly damaging to future generations.
     
  4. Thomas Veil macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

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    #4
    I had the same experience.

    We need to grow up and realize that whatever we decide we need, we have to pay for.
     
  5. iJohnHenry macrumors P6

    iJohnHenry

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    #5
    I really pity those of you with children, that will bear the brunt of this flagrant economic "abyss" that it being perpetrated on the American people right now.

    When in Rome, go down in flames, as Romans do.
     
  6. fivepoint macrumors 65816

    fivepoint

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    #6
    The only thing we NEED is a better understanding of the difference between NEEDS and WANTS.
     
  7. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

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    #7
    Theres really nothing you can think of that is holding this nation back from the 21st century?
     
  8. ender land macrumors 6502a

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    #8
    I made money by filing federal taxes this year (thanks due to a few refundable tax credits in the stimulus bill).

    No wonder our government is in debt.
     
  9. fivepoint macrumors 65816

    fivepoint

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    #9
    Debt
    14 TRILLION

    Unfunded Liablities
    112 TRILLION
    (over $1 million per taxpayer)

    And you're focused on finding new ways to spend money?
    www.usdebtclock.org
     
  10. mcrain thread starter macrumors 68000

    mcrain

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    #10
    Yes. We need to not die. We need to not starve. We need healthcare. We need to not live in squalor just because we are aging. We need to care for our military personnel who have been injured or who have retired. We need to honor our civil servants. We need to protect our environment. We do need to ensure our products are safe and won't kill or injure us. We do need to have freedom from government intrusion in our personal lives.

    We do NOT need to give tax cuts to the wealthy. We do NOT need to give tax cuts and beneficial policies to multinational corporations. We do NOT need the largest military in the world. We do NOT need (and never did) to fight a war in Iraq. We do NOT need to continue the war in Afghanistan. We do NOT need to continue policies that benefit Wall Street, corporations and the wealthy. We do NOT need to have freedom from government intrustion in our business or corporate lives.

    (edit) What's your list?
     
  11. SuperCachetes macrumors 6502a

    SuperCachetes

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    #11
    This.

    I'd also argue that we do not NEED $3 gas. That it might cost $100 to fill up a Hummer, Escalade, or Expedition is not my problem.
     
  12. mcrain thread starter macrumors 68000

    mcrain

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    #12
    Well, we do NOT need to subsidize big oil with tax breaks, deductions, etc... that lower their cost of production to the point of $3 gas. The real cost of gas is far higher, and there is no reason we need to be basically giving billions of taxpayer dollars to big oil.
     
  13. OttawaGuy macrumors 6502a

    OttawaGuy

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    #13
    Stop spending so much on the military and you'll have enough to cover healthcare and other social programs.
     
  14. mcrain thread starter macrumors 68000

    mcrain

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    #14
    Want vs. need. +1
     
  15. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

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    #15
    So you want the USA to rapidly become antiquated and unable to compete in any field other than financials (aka pushing money around)?

    This country needs a drastic infrastructure upgrade if we are going to compete in the future. We're a joke in this regard. We need to start making **** again here, and in order to do that effectively you need the infrastructure to support it.

    I don't fear the almighty debt, we need to pay it off, but its not the crisis everyone wants us to believe it is. Fix the ****ing country so we generate money again, then use it to pay the debt.
     
  16. ender land macrumors 6502a

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    #16
    Of course the disagreement on this point is precisely this - whether the USA needs, or just wants, a military requiring a huge yearly budget.
     
  17. fivepoint macrumors 65816

    fivepoint

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    #17
    We should dramatically cut spending to the military and take a more defensive stance worldwide. The funds should be redirected to deficit/debt reduction and then back to the taxpayers... not expanding entitlement spending.


    Is it your honest position that the reason we don't make '****' here is because of an infrastructure problem? Seriously? Where do you get this stuff? The reason we build less and less here is partially due to basic economics as we've progressed into a more consumption based economy, but this has been dramatically sped up by our government's attacks on business and continued legislation which increases the cost of operating business and adding new employees. Companies use a simple equation when determining to add jobs here or abroad. There are extra costs associated with doing business here, there are extra costs with doing business abroad. Every new regulation, every new law, every new minimum wage requirement, every new bureaucracy, adds to the 'cost associated with doing business here' column. When these costs outweigh the 'abroad' costs... the decision becomes simple. Our government is making the decision way too simple for business - period.


    You're dead on right that fixing the country/economy is the most important solution to the problem. Where you seem to not comprehend the situation is by suggesting that our debt/deficit is not a crisis. I mean seriously... have you not seen any of the projections on what the INTEREST on our debt alone would cost?

    [​IMG]
     
  18. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

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    #18
    Fivepoint, you do a really good job of reading into things I haven't said. IF we are going to build things again in this country, we are going to need an overhauled infrastructure. I never said that our infrastructure is currently the reason why we don't make things here anymore.

    Lets make things so we can make some money, grow the GDP (thereby making debt a lesser percentage of the GDP), and start paying. After all, the pie can grow, as you like to say.

    I'm not saying that we don't need cuts, we do, and the best place to start would be our military global presence, you know that thing that doesn't cause our more of our people to starve or go broke?
     
  19. mcrain thread starter macrumors 68000

    mcrain

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    #19
    Is there any difference between giving money back to the taxpayers and entitlement programs? Both funnel money back to Americans. Both benefit society. One just benefits a lot more people than the other, and has a far greater impact on the economy as a whole than the other.
     
  20. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

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    #20
    I think we know which one is which, and what fivepoint's interpretation will be, numbers be damned ;)

    I'd rather make sure that the "greatest country on earth" can feed its starving and help our poor before I'm just given a check to buy something.
     
  21. kavika411 macrumors 6502a

    kavika411

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    #21
    Yes, the former gives taxed money to people who paid the tax, and the latter gives taxed money to people who did not pay the tax.

    But that's assuming your question was not rhetorical.
     
  22. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

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    #22
    Do you agree that we, like any other civilized nation, need a social safety net to protect our poor/sick/disabled citizens?

    I think its absurd that we have so many poor and homeless people in "the greatest country on earth".
     
  23. mcrain thread starter macrumors 68000

    mcrain

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    #23
    Are you implying that the poor who pay no federal income taxes pay no taxes? If so, you are mistaken.
     
  24. kavika411 macrumors 6502a

    kavika411

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    #24
    Alright, before you start moving goalposts, why don't you clarify which taxes you were discussing in Post No. 19.
     
  25. mcrain thread starter macrumors 68000

    mcrain

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    #25
    Considering we are talking about entitlement programs, we are talking about both state and federal taxes, as well as specific taxes such as SS and FICA. That being said, governments have costs associated with them, and those costs are paid with other taxes as well, which would have to be used to pay any shortfalls in the other taxes.

    Therefore, I would think we are talking about all taxes.

    If you would prefer to keep it simple, and only talk about federal income taxes, that's fine. The same principals remain, as SS, Medicare and Medicaid are paid for using SS taxes, FICA and state withholding.

    (edit) I didn't move the goalposts.
     

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