Tea Party Revolting! (Patriot Act Extension Fails)

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by mcrain, Feb 9, 2011.

  1. mcrain, Feb 9, 2011
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2011

    mcrain macrumors 68000

    mcrain

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    #1
    (Title from 2nd Article - I repeated because I thought it was punny.)

    Thank you... Tea Party :eek:

    I've said a lot of things about the new "tea party" Republicans, but if they can keep it up and not just follow Boehner around, I'll have to take some of it back.
     
  2. mrkramer macrumors 603

    mrkramer

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    #2
    This is good, but I don't have a lot of faith that the Tea Party will do anything else good in the next two years before they are kicked out of congress.
     
  3. kavika411 macrumors 6502a

    kavika411

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    #3
    In another thread I admitted my initial support for the Patriot Act, but I know have nothing but contempt for it. Just as the the inept Sarbanes Oxley Act couldn't prevent the accounting errors that birthed it (and has destroyed domestic IPOs), so too can the inane Patriot Act not prevent terrorist acts of the sort that conceived it (and has destroyed rights and liberties along the way). It is indeed interesting that - if I am reading the article correctly - the "right wing" Tea Party has stopped the extension while the "left wing" White House wants it extended. I've come around on Obama on a lot of things, but I wish he'd either kill the Patriot Act or come clean on the intel he's been presented that makes him believe it's still necessary.
     
  4. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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  5. quagmire macrumors 603

    quagmire

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    #5
    This is perfect timing. I just got back from my Homeland Security class and my professor( used to work for the FBI) explained to us how some of these provisions in the Patriot Act work.

    The National Security letters only pertains to matters of national security and deals with classified information. These can't be used for a bank robber, etc. Those type of crimes still require a grand jury.

    The warrant issue is a non-issue, IMHO. You still have to have the appropriate information in order to get a warrant, but it doesn't require them to tell the resident they were there. Which makes sense because any terrorist activity would be stopped if they found out the FBI was there.

    The roving wiretaps is completely skewed. The only thing it does is grants the FBI for instance the right to still tap a cell phone if the person went to New York. Before the Patriot Act, they could only wiretap a phone in a certain area. So if the wiretap was granted in the Virginia area, but the suspect went to New York to conduct their terrorist activity, the FBI couldn't continue to tap that phone. The roving wiretaps makes it legal to continue to tap that phone despite the location. Like the warrants, they still need the appropriate information in order to be granted the wiretap.
     
  6. fivepoint macrumors 65816

    fivepoint

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    #6
    Thank you.
    [​IMG]

    BTW, Boehner is a big-government neo-con in sheep's clothing as of late. As I've said here previously: "Boehner voted for NCLB, voted for the Patriot Act, and I believe voted for Bush's prescription drug program. He's not a real small-government conservative..."
     
  7. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    #7
    I'm not sure why you're giving so much credit to the Tea Party.

    Excerpt from the washington Post (bolding mine)...

    The House measure, which was sponsored by Rep. Jim Sensenbrenner (R-Wis.) and required a two-thirds majority for passage, failed on a 277-to-148 vote. Twenty-six Republicans voted with 122 Democrats to oppose the measure, while 67 Democrats voted with 210 Republicans to back it. Ten members did not vote.

    Anyone happy to see these provisions struck down have the Democrats to thank, along with a couple dozen republicans. Let's not forget who did most of the heavy lifting here.
     
  8. kavika411 macrumors 6502a

    kavika411

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    #8
    So more Democrats broke rank to vote in favor of The Patriot Act than Republicans who broke rank to vote against it.

    And we have the Democrats to thank?

    Got it.
     
  9. leekohler, Feb 9, 2011
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2011

    leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #9
    More Democrats voted to defeat the extension than Republicans- far more. Read the post again.
     
  10. mcrain thread starter macrumors 68000

    mcrain

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    #10
    I don't know why you are saying thank you. They haven't earned my "taking it back" yet. As citizenzen points out, the heavy lifting was done by the democrats. When the so-called tea party republicans start consistently helping the democrats with agendas they should support, like cutting government waste (like they did with medicare fraud and abuse), eliminating or reforming government programs in a responsible way (like President Obama is proposing with Fannie and Freddie), investing in the USA and its future (high speed rail) [although they may have legitimate philosophical disagreements with this one], and lots of other stuff (like working to create American jobs, ending corporate welfare and protectionism, gay marriage, protecting freedom of and from religion and drug reform).

    I don't expect the tea-party republicans to agree with everything the democrats do, but at least have an adult debate and actually support things based on the issue and proposals instead of merely political gain. There are a lot of things that Democrats and Republicans (especially tea party Republicans) should agree on, or at least be able to work together on.

    True, but ANY sign that those on the right are actually willing to vote based on an issue instead of politics is a good sign.
     
  11. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    #11
    The fact is that over 82% of the votes that killed those provisions came from Democrats and less than 18% of the votes came from Republicans.
     
  12. kavika411 macrumors 6502a

    kavika411

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    #12
    Hence the phrase [wait for it] "broke rank."
     
  13. dscuber9000 macrumors 6502a

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    #13
    So thank the Democrats for having the right "rank."
     
  14. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    #14
    He seems to have a hard time expressing gratitude.
     
  15. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

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    #15
    The Dems aren't the lockstep brigade the GOP has been the last few years. I know thats a hard concept to grab if you don't look into history...at all. :rolleyes:
     
  16. chrmjenkins macrumors 603

    chrmjenkins

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    #16
    He understands it. Since he has no ground, he's trying to manufacture a point of superiority by saying that since the number of democrats who voted for it is larger in percentage than the number of republicans who voted against it, that somehow validates the republicans as a whole. Complete nonsense.

    Despite being the minority party in the house.
     
  17. guzhogi macrumors 68030

    guzhogi

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    #17
    As long as there's evidence that points to wrong doing, I'm fine with that. But if it's just baseless suspicion like "That guy looks shifty" or "That guy's a Muslim," and the authorities call for wiretaps, I have a problem with that.

    I wonder how many people wanting the Patriot Act actually took the time to read and understand the whole thing. I'm just thinking of the Michael Moore movie Fahrenheit 9/11. I know, not the most credible source, but there was a scene where Michael Moore interviewed this one senator or congressman and the person said that if they actually took the time to read all of the proposed bills, legislation would go way too slowly. Understandable, but I'd like our legislators make as informed decisions as possible. Make the bills as short and easy as possible and make the legislation process itself as efficient as possible. Maybe then we could have good laws passed that actually do what they're supposed to.
     
  18. MacNut macrumors Core

    MacNut

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    #18
    The Republicans hold the majority in the house and can pass what ever they want. The fact that just enough of them broke rank gives them power. The Democrats voting against doesn't do anything but a few Republicans voting against is just enough to swing.
     
  19. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    #19
    And I suppose the straw that broke the camel's back deserves all the credit for falling the beast... it had nothing to do with all the weight that bore down on it until that final piece swung the result. :rolleyes:
     
  20. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

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    #20
    Isn't that how this country usually finds idols?
     
  21. Rt&Dzine macrumors 6502a

    Rt&Dzine

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  22. Huntn macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #22
    If you want to get a feel for security that our security minded zealots have in mind just watch the movie, Minority Report. And no, I'm not referring to the precogs. I'm referring to the loss of personal liberties and privacy. ;)
     
  23. MacNut macrumors Core

    MacNut

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    #23
    You would think all of the Republicans would want to extend it, the fact that it didn't work shows that the tea parry members were the deciding factor. They could have easily voted for it but they didn't.
     
  24. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

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    #24
    You can make that claim without looking through who made what vote? You simply assume all the GOP were in favor of these gross violations of privacy? :confused:
     
  25. MacNut macrumors Core

    MacNut

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    #25
    Hasn't that been the pattern the past few years?
     

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