Teacher punishes 9-year-old autistic boy by putting him in a bag

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by leekohler, Dec 27, 2011.

  1. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #1
    What the hell is wrong with people?

    http://www.cnn.com/2011/12/26/us/kentucky-boy-bag/index.html
     
  2. wrinkster22 macrumors 68030

    wrinkster22

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    #2
    agread... what is wrong with people..
    Hell, I would be terrified if I was locked in a bag.
    What if there was a fire?
    Lawsuit in 3...2....1...
     
  3. leekohler thread starter macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #3
    All kinds of things could have gone wrong. It's insane.
     
  4. mcrain macrumors 68000

    mcrain

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    #4
    If your kid can't behave himself well enough to attend a school that cannot use corporal punishment to curb bad behavior, then either do your job as a parent and teach your kid to behave, or don't send your kid there. If that kid was being physically violent and required intervention that would have been illegal, sticking him in the bag may have been the better solution.

    Yes, the school crossed the line, but there is an obvious parental failing here that shouldn't be ignored.

    (edit) What could have gone wrong with an aide sitting there? It was a mesh bag with a drawstring.
     
  5. leekohler thread starter macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #5
    Amazing that you would defend this- simply unreal. You don't put a kid in a bag, especially one who is mentally ill.
     
  6. Firestar macrumors 68020

    Firestar

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    #6
    The aide could have forgot him? If there was a fire or something similar, he would have little chance of being able to move far.

    While we don't know what he did to 'deserve' this punishment, I doubt it warranted being put in a mesh bag.
     
  7. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #7
    Remind me not to employ you in defence of anyone with behavioural difficulties.
     
  8. rdowns, Dec 27, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 28, 2011

    rdowns macrumors Penryn

    rdowns

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    #8

    Maybe you missed the part that stated it was a special autism program. Here's a shocker for you, some autistic kids have behavioral problems. I am simply stunned at your post.
     
  9. ucfgrad93, Dec 27, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 28, 2011

    ucfgrad93 macrumors P6

    ucfgrad93

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    #9
    Agreed. The teacher should be fired.
     
  10. likemyorbs macrumors 68000

    likemyorbs

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    #10
    Looks like someone needs to take his moral fiber capsules. :eek:
     
  11. iJohnHenry macrumors P6

    iJohnHenry

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    #11
    :d <--Big smile is broke. Editor turns cap into small "d".

     
  12. rocknblogger macrumors 68020

    rocknblogger

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    #12
    Are you for real? Did you read that it was an autistic child? What is wrong with you?

    You obviously don't know anything about autism. Your comments anger me almost as much as the story!!
     
  13. mcrain macrumors 68000

    mcrain

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    #13
    Wow, you all get so worked up the second anyone tries to defend a behavior that is basically impossible to defend.

    Yes, it is horrible to put an autistic child in a bag. Yes, the school is going to get into trouble for this, but ask yourself what could the school do if presented with a child who is hurting himself or others in today's legal climate?

    The argument I made is a reasonable argument defending an unreasonable practice.

    Oh, and Skunk, I have represented many DD clients, and I don't judge them or their actions. I also didn't judge my non-DD clients. As a representative of someone who does something like sticking a DD kid into a bag, you can't judge them, you have to find a way of presenting their case.

    The fact that everyone is outraged just goes to show that with some refinement, the argument could work.
     
  14. ucfgrad93 macrumors P6

    ucfgrad93

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    #14
    It is no wonder people have such a low opinion of lawyers.:mad:
     
  15. leekohler thread starter macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #15
    Are you seriously trying to tell me that "trained professionals" do not have any methods for handling this more appropriately?

    No kidding.
     
  16. Mord, Dec 27, 2011
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2011

    Mord macrumors G4

    Mord

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    #16
    It's difficult to resist breaking rules replying to this.

    I'm not sure you quite understand what autism means. This isn't about idiots who self diagnose with aspergers because they're a tad socially awkward and introverted.

    This has nothing to do with how strict the kids mother is, this is about a school failing to care for a student with specific needs. Autistic children are almost invariably "difficult", you can't solve this through whatever your definition of good parenting is.

    The staff should have been appropriately trained to deal with the kinds of outbursts that autistic children are prone to, maybe by using a hug blanket?
     
  17. mcrain, Dec 27, 2011
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2011

    mcrain macrumors 68000

    mcrain

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    #17
    What do you think is going to happen to the teacher and the school?

    They are going to get sued, and perhaps face criminal charges. If the parents want to sue, if the State wants to press charges, you MUST consider the opposition's arguments and be prepared for them. If you are getting sued, or are charged with a crime, you hire a lawyer. That lawyer has to represent you and help you deal with being sued or charged.

    That's the job. It's not easy.

    Yes, I know autistic children are not how I portrayed them, but not everyone does. Pick the right jury, maybe confuse a few people, make some good arguments... On the other hand, the State (plaintiff) can anticipate that argument and educate the jury and prevent that type of situation.

    It's easy to pile on and say the teacher and the school were wrong. It's a lot harder (and a lot more fun) to defend them. Plus, gives people a chance to discuss.

    (edit) By the way, did you notice that the mother isn't calling for anyone to get fired? Also, if you are going to overreact to a story before you know all the facts, keep in mind that autistic children sometimes need to have stimulus removed so that they can calm down.

    So, in a jury setting, let the state get everyone worked up and all emotional, then educate them about autism, the school's policies, the fact the kid has been problematic in the past, the mother knows it, the kid has been secluded in the past, and then talk about funding and the woes of the public education system, then, show them the bag designed for use with autistic children, order one, hold it up next to the one the school used, and then have the aide testify about sitting right next to the kid.

    http://www.laceandfabric.com/Lycra-Spacial-Body-Bag-SpacialSack.htm

    Oh, and don't forget the autism experts and LD teachers to testify about sensory overload and the techniques used to help these children.

    http://www.sensory-processing-disorder.com/problem-behavior-in-the-classroom.html
     
  18. Mord macrumors G4

    Mord

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    #18
    That isn't remotely comparable to a net sack as described by the article.

    I know a thing or two about sensory overload, a net bag is completely inappropriate, especially containing balls.

    The lycra bags offer a uniform texture, a reduction in visual stimulus and a comforting hugging sensation. None of these things are offered by a net bag, any expert on autism will make the same argument.
     
  19. Peace macrumors Core

    Peace

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    #19
    That teacher should have been fired and arrested the same moment the child was found in the bag.

    WTH is wrong with people today ?
     
  20. bradl, Dec 27, 2011
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2011

    bradl macrumors 68040

    bradl

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    #20
    I tried to stay out of this, as I am friends with families who have autistic kids, but I can't now.

    Let's put all of this into perspective, and take autism out of it. I'll ask just this one question.

    Do you honestly think that putting a child in a bag is justifiable punishment?

    Honestly? You really think that that is suitable for any child, and as a teacher; someone kids have to look up to as role models?

    If so you have a really, REALLY sad outlook on life for children. Absolutely NO parent would want that to happen to their child! Likewise, there is absolutely NO defense for this. The mere thought of you or someone trying to defend this completely disgusts me. :mad:

    EDIT: now that I have the 'emotional parent' out of me, I'll reply to the rest of your post logically.

    The option that you have completely omitted is the fact that people try to avoid taking things to court as much as possible, as they may not be able to afford the court costs, attorneys, etc. And as much as education is being cut nowadays (Thank you, Reds, including Teapublicans), the school system there may not be able to afford it. So to save face, they may try to avoid court by firing the teacher and the principal, or even people on the school board; whatever it takes to get this to not become more of the spectacle that it already is. How likely that is going to happen, who knows. But that is an option.

    Civilly, you're already looking at an assault of a minor charge. But like I said above, like stupidity, there is no defense for this.

    BL.
     
  21. mcrain macrumors 68000

    mcrain

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    #21
    Has anyone seen the bag? If not, isn't it possible that it wasn't as dissimilar from the sensory overload body bags they sell for the purpose of helping autistic children? If so, then isn't possible that the school may have been trying to improvise with a child that has a diagnosis of autism, but may also have other disorders? If that's possible, then isn't it possible that the school made a bad decision, but not necessarily criminal?

    I'm a father, and I would freak out if this happened to my child. That being said, if it happened I would have a thousand questions before I got on my high horse and started saying that any defense is wrong, lawyers are scumbags, someone needs to be fired, etc.. etc...

    That is what happens when you rely on your emotions and not reality, and that is how we all got suckered after 9/11.

    Keep that in mind.
     
  22. MorphingDragon macrumors 603

    MorphingDragon

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    #22
    If you were a good lawyer you'd know the answer to the above questions.

    It would most likely be a cheap polyester weave sack, as they are cheap and abundant in schools. I doubt schools would be storing sports gear in lycra-like sacks.
     
  23. mcrain macrumors 68000

    mcrain

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    #23
    Do you think I'm a bad lawyer? Has the bag been shown? If so, is it at all like the link I posted earlier? Has anyone released the medical file of the child? The description of the kid sounds like he has multiple problems and probably multiple diagnoses, but I'd need the file to dissect to know for sure.

    Lawyers ask questions to get witnesses to say the answers, not because they don't know the answers.

    (edit) So, based solely on your guesses and doubts, you are ready to condemn this school and these people who have dedicated their lives to the education of DD kids?
     
  24. MacNut macrumors Core

    MacNut

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    CT
    #24
    The proper solution would have been to call the police for the safety of everyone involved. There are procedures in place that are meant to handle out of control children that don't cause more harm.

    Your a bad lawyer for not knowing the facts of the case before making your opinions.
     
  25. MorphingDragon, Dec 27, 2011
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2011

    MorphingDragon macrumors 603

    MorphingDragon

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    #25
    The child having other medical disorders is not justification to stick him in anything other than a purpose built sack.
     

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