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Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Solver, May 2, 2019.
in CA even with a CCW you can't be on school property
Republican Governor Ron DeSantis is expected to sign the bill into law, enabling school districts wishing to take part in the voluntary Guardian program to arm those teachers who pass a 144-hour training course.
Not say I agree however at least they are looking at ensuring there is some training ...
Wonder how many Districts participate ...
I wonder how many teachers will wind up shooting each other. Or shooting students when they feel the student is behaving in a threatening manner.
144 hour training course?
I've sat through firearms training. I'm curious what they would need to spend 144 hours learning.
Link to bill (PDF):
Training requirements starts on p. 9.
How excessive? The ambience in question is a classroom or the hallways of a SCHOOL.
We're not talking a shopping mall or a rock concert venue with private security guards amplifying any potential presence of law enforcement officers.
We're talking here about teachers having to learn in detail through instruction and simulated scenarios how to discern whether to use life-threatening force on one of her own charges, or on some outsider trying to harm some of them, and then how to ensure she knows how to use the weapon accurately if she decides its use is the only reasonable option.
I wouldn't want any part of that training outline skipped if one of my kin were going to be a student (or for that matter a teacher) in a school where the teachers are carrying.
YOU say that like it's a bad thing...................
I can see how extensive training would be prudent if teachers are going to be armed in the classroom. But I wonder how many teachers have 144 hours they can devote to receive this training. And if they do, will they be compensated for those hours?
Seriously: The classroom as war zone. How (expletive deleted) mentally nuts is that?
I come from a country where the police aren't armed, let alone the population.
Give teachers more resources in terms of time, books, computers, libraries, special needs support, and other teaching resources, rather than reducing monies spent on these vital resources, instead of.......good grief......teaching them to use guns, and expecting them to find time out of a busy and demanding professional career to attend to arms training rather than remedial training for kids facing challenges and difficulties.
Look: I have worked in universities.
And, wearing a different hat, I have also worked (subsequently) in some of the more challenging spots on the planet.
But - I can see no argument whatsoever to justify the transformation of an educator into a - terminator.
this bill allows a qualified teacher to defend himself in case of a shooter on campus. ........... as you can see by Parkland a cop can simply wait outside while the carnage goes on inside.
That's precisely why we should arm the students. After all, the only way to stop a bad teacher is a good student with gun.
WE can kill two birds with one simple stone.
no more public schools or more classrooms, it's an online world, let the kids and students log in via facetime/skype/webcam etc etc etc and have the courses taught there, teachers are safe & so are students, imagine how much pollution will be gone because no one will be late to school anymore, study in your PJs if you like, our carbon footprint would diminish significantly this way as well.
Yeah kids who are wannabe shooters might learn to emulate average adults, i.e. avoiding a full acting out of rage as we do when wanting to put a brick through a TV screen, but realizing it's good to keep a lid on rage sometimes, just in case might want to use that TV again later... so just walk out to kitchen, grab another beer... oh wait. this is school we're talkin' about, right?
I can see the new school apps now... palm readers... "Please put your hand on the screen now, so we know you are you, and conscious, and ready to take this final exam."
And the hacks, those would be interesting, kids checking to see if the teachers bother getting out of their own PJs.
A bad teacher?
What planet (apart from entitled second amendment nonsense) do you people live on?
Even in the insanely gun-loving plutocracy of the US, where second amendment rights are deflected with idiotic references to "thoughts and prayers" and silly (and inaccurate) explanations of "bad apples" (if Afro-Americans, Hispanics, Muslims or others wield weaponry with lethal intent - it is, of course, an issue ascribed to their background, but, if alienated white males, misogynistic and racist males ditched by female partners open fire and slaughter several innocent bystanders, preferably female, and preferably people of colour, it is excused or explained away by reference to "misunderstood", "ditched" "good guy who flipped" - even if he was battering his nearest and dearest into battered and bruised and nearly unidentifiable insensibility), I cannot think of a single case of a teacher opening fire on pupils, even if frustrated - beyond belief - by the challenges of the teaching profession as operated in the US.
What an insult to teachers.
For - expletive deleted - sake.
Distance education has its role - and it is incredibly valuable in places where the population is limited and the geography extensive; but - good grief - part of the whole function, and value - of education - is that you meet, talk to, discuss, debate, engage with and are challenged by - your peers in the classroom.
Good grief: Thoughts and prayers, indeed: You guys do really come from a completely different world.
1. I need your address so I can send you a brand new, unused sarcasm meter free of charge........
2. obviously depends on the teacher, we DO have plenty of bad apples in there.
3. I would suggest you watch the movie "mean girls" , and while I recognize your well thought out post has merit and it's valid on several fronts we could perhaps meet once a week? month? get SOME level of social interaction? have you not noticed that the minute most leave the classroom their nose is in the phone? we have problems, I am simply making suggestions. don't shoot the messenger please............
Classrooms are much different than they used to be, my spouse's old school had to have the swat team called to help break up a fight because the on-scene police and firefighters couldn't handle it. Kids stay quiet in the halls and move away from any cameras. It's all about max damage being inflicted instead of the loud public displays they once were. I'd have preferred my spouse wear my body armor at the time, rather than myself.
If the teachers really do go through that extensive of training and also continue to get range time and maybe some stress tests, I'd support it. Not every teacher is going be getting this permit, it's going to take a level of commitment. The ones who do get it aren't going to be brandishing them wildly about like some silly spaghetti western. This is another added layer of prevention against the mentally ill or evil wishing to do harm in a publicized safe zone. They should pull in some of those who went through the Troops to Teachers program, if those individuals are willing.
Distance education is definitely not the answer, for some it does work. There are other children who are desperately seeking that adult interaction, someone they view as a parental type figure to give them the reassurance they're cared for and matter. You see it a lot in title 1 schools, makes you want to volunteer more after hours because they respond so well when positively engaged.
I'd rather them have too much rather than too little.
Likely they will adjust ...
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I've seen more than a few schools with metal detectors / scanners and armed patrol officers.
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1. I'm not American.
Therefore, American sarcasm meters are entirely lost on me, as - frankly - I don't get them. Different cultures, and all that.
I mean - the fatuous, and yes, supremely clichéd, offering of "prayers and thoughts" after a school shooting, followed by the moronic argument "guns don't kill people, people do"?
To me, this reads like a sick joke rather than an expression of some profound sympathy even if informed by - an inexplicable - belief system.
Me, I'd much prefer legal oversight, and accountability.
The kind of stuff you need to be able to drive a car....insurance, doctor's certs, certificate of competence, a legitimate licence restricted to certain capacities....boring (horse manure) stating that you could safely be trusted to use this.....er, equipment...
2. Watch a movie?
I don't watch movies, especially if recommended by Americans.
3. Seriously: I taught at university for around 20 years: I cannot envisage anyone, anywhere, in Europe who would have taken a gun to their students (irrespective of how much - when drunk and grumbling - they may have thought their students deserved or merited such treatment). Maybe the students required a brain transplant, but never a gun.
I find a backhanded smack across the back of the head is a fantastic way to get even and won't leave a mark.
You'd think after spending thousands of pounds they wouldn't be little *****, but alas they are.
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No offense to any midgets.
This whole thing is so upside down it has to be a dream. Ask yourself in what crazy world we live in that we even consider a teacher needs to be armed to the hilt to teach children. How long before a teacher shoots a child?
The world is crazy, people kill each other for shoes or different ways of thinking. Teachers aren't going to be carrying around machine guns or grenades, let's not get carried away with the delusions purported by whatever media source you frequent. The training may very well be better than some law enforcement receive, not every cop is adequately trained in escalation of force. Not everyone on this forum is a teacher with experience in an environment where carrying is appealing, and none of us have gone through this 144 hour course so it's easy to make up whatever we want to fit our narratives. How long before one of these teachers who carry saves students from a prick with a chip on their shoulder and weapon?
I have worked as a teacher (third level) yes, in Europe, and no-one ever, anywhere suggested that I would need to be trained in the use of arms, or should consider the use of arms, in the classroom, the campus, or the staffroom, let alone the library.... - good grief, I was a teacher.
And,when I (subsequently) worked as a political counsellor/political adviser in some of the craziest and most dysfunctional places on the planet it was entirely my decision whether or not I wished to to trained in the use of arms, or wished to carry such weaponry, or even whether I wished to even handle such weaponry.
In Europe, the EU allows for the right to never have to handle, carry, hold, or bear arms.
Having guns present != a war zone.
Saying so is quite hyperbolic, just like saying an educator armed with a firearm is analogous to a terminator.
Perhaps by your logic doctors who save lives should be simply incapable of possessing firearms, but reality is that many doctors are firearm enthusiasts. I should know. I go to the range several from the hospital I’m employed at.