Texas executes man with IQ of 61

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by mcrain, Aug 8, 2012.

  1. mcrain macrumors 68000

    mcrain

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    #1
    A fictional character is the basis for Texas' standard for when it's ok or not ok to execute someone? Even if his IQ was in the 70s, how is this preferable to just keeping him locked up?
     
  2. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #2
    Stupid is as stupid does. Is this even the first time they've done this? I doubt it.
     
  3. mrkramer macrumors 603

    mrkramer

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    #3
    It's sad that we live in a country that will murder its own citizens like this especially when they are mentally handicapped so they probably don't understand what they did.
     
  4. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #4
    Oh look-

    http://archive.uua.org/ga/ga01/uuagafri2055.html

    Neat!

    http://archives.cnn.com/2000/LOCAL/southwest/08/10/hci.bush.executions/
     
  5. niuniu macrumors 68020

    niuniu

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    #5
    What sort of streets do you live in that you can be regarded as savvy with an IQ in the low 70s..
     
  6. Sythas macrumors 6502a

    Sythas

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    #6
    He killed someone, the sad thing it's the one with higher IQ was able to lived. But back the the "dumb" one, you specificly said he didn't understand what he did..... So, why he won't do it again ?
     
  7. yg17 macrumors G5

    yg17

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    #7
    This is nothing new. They use the biggest fictional story ever sold as the basis for most of their laws. The only surprise here is that the ignorant, anti-intellectual yahoos in the Texas government know of another piece of literary work besides the Bible.
     
  8. Alameda macrumors 6502a

    Alameda

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    #8
    Isn't outlawing executions of the mentally retarded in Texas the same thing as outlawing the death penalty itself?
     
  9. niuniu macrumors 68020

    niuniu

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    #9
    Burn :D
     
  10. Mac'nCheese macrumors 68030

    Mac'nCheese

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    #10
    The people of this country "elected" a Texan with a lower IQ as their president so this doesn't surprise me.
     
  11. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #12
    So keep him in prison forever...
     
  12. mrkramer macrumors 603

    mrkramer

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    #13
    He won't do it again because he should be locked up in prison or preferably a mental hospital where he is no threat to society. There is no reason for the state to kill anyone especially someone with that low of an IQ.
     
  13. kolax macrumors G3

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    #14
    Does someone's IQ level determine whether they know killing is right or wrong?
     
  14. Sythas macrumors 6502a

    Sythas

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    #15
    Why ? He's suppose to be dumb and not really knowing what he did, so you want him to be a sex toy for some patetic low life prisonner who are really dangerous, but are enough smart to have just have 10 years to do in prison....
     
  15. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #16
    The US Supreme Court thinks so.
     
  16. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #17
    So put him in a mental hospital. Or clean up your prisons so people don't get raped all the time.

    The lack of control in US prisons is also barbaric.
     
  17. Huntn macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #18
    This is always an outstanding philosophical discussion. Are individuals held accountable for their actions, their knowledge of right from wrong, or both? As a society are we better because we lock someone up forever or execute them?

    My primary stance against the death penalty is primarily based upon the percentage of innocent people who have been executed. I find this unconscionable. But in the case of the Aurora Colorado shooter, when there is no doubt this person caused so much harm, maybe it is time for a redo. Send him onto his next life. Does that make us primitive? Are we better if we keep him locked up for the remainder of his troubled life? What would the imagined supreme being want us to do?

    I don't know the answer.
     
  18. Dagless macrumors Core

    Dagless

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    #19
    Why not, you know, not sentence people to death in the first place? Then you'd avoid not only killing dumb people, but smart people too.
     
  19. NickZac macrumors 68000

    NickZac

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    #20
    It isn't. Neither the death penalty or life imprisonment in a traditional prison is appropriate. Institutionalization is, and for a man with an IQ within the 70s, reasoning of right and wrong is, at best, impaired. It's sad that this happened because someone with an IQ at that level may not have even understood the implications of their actions.
     
  20. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #21
    Yes, keep him locked up. No, don't add to the body count. Why make exceptions if it is a matter of principle?
    Why bring her into it?
     
  21. iStudentUK macrumors 65816

    iStudentUK

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    #22
    From a legal standpoint this is easy. Most crimes (and certainly ones as serious as murder) require two basic elements- the 'actus reus' and the 'mens rea'. The first is the act itself (eg in the case of murder - killing), the second is the mental element (eg intent). Both the action and the required state of mind must occur simultaneously or no crime has been committed. The defence of 'insanity' can be thought of as the defence of saying the accused was not mentally capable of forming the mens rea.*

    In the UK there is a special partial defence only available to murder which is diminished responsibility. It's a bit like a halfway house, if successful you are not guilty of murder but automatically guilty of voluntary manslaughter which carries a lighter sentence.


    *this is all slightly simplified!
     
  22. 63dot, Aug 9, 2012
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2012

    63dot macrumors 603

    63dot

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    #23
    I totally agree with you there. But to add to that, I think the death penalty is simply wrong, even if no innocent people are killed. Pretty much, right and wrong seems to be turned on its head a lot in American law, and precisely why I left law school, twice in fact. I was OK with the sugar coated theories of law in my undergrad degree but found out the less than fair part of it in law school taught at night by attorneys (who seemed to be looking for other work). I am OK with Mcrain and his tax law practice, but I could never do criminal defense or prosecution in death penalty cases.
     
  23. niuniu macrumors 68020

    niuniu

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    #24
    I get my back up sometimes when a drunk driver kills some young girl, or some maniac rapes an old woman (no joke, we seem to have a fair amount of old woman rape and abuse cases in the UK recently).

    Times like that I really want the offender executed. Boils my blood.

    When the emotion passes though I can't rationally justify killing someone. It's murder under the banner of law, which may be even more socially abhorrant.
     
  24. 63dot macrumors 603

    63dot

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    #25
    I feel the same.

    When I had a boss who was in a certain sector of the army/military who basically got the bad guy before he got you (some of who may have taken down Noriega), I kind of saw him as becoming that bad guy. Their killing wasn't done with emotion at all, and this made me realize that there's a fine thread holding us together and keeping your UK and my USA where they are and not Iran or North Korea. That thread could snap at any time or fray slowly over time but the result would be the same, a corrupt totalitarian society. There needs to be people here and everywhere (third world dictatorships) who have to speak up against state sanctioned executions.

    The Arab Spring has shown that those failed dictatorships using state execution only fired up the opposition enough to overthrow them. When the state gets too corrupt and uses the death penalty to further their political agenda, which always is the ultimate path of the death penalty, cooler heads prevail and overthrow that government.
     

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