Thank you Kim Davis, you've done wonders for our cause: New AP-GfK Polls

WarHeadz

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Kim Davis is now a gay rights hero. I guess when people saw videos of couples being turned away (rudely) when applying for marriage licenses, it struck a nerve with the public according to these poll results. The right was hoping that Kim Davis's "plight" would inspire a backlash against gay rights and renew a push for protections for religious bigotry. It seems as though the backlash backfired on them, even amongst Republicans. Nice try. :)

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WASHINGTON (AP) — Linda Massey opposes gay marriage. But she was incensed last summer to see that Kim Davis, a Kentucky county clerk, was refusing to issue marriage licenses to gay couples.


"If the government says you have to give out those marriage licenses, and you get paid to do it, you do it," says the 64-year-old retiree from Lewiston, Michigan. "That woman," she said of Davis, "should be out of a job."

Americans like Massey are at the heart of a shift in public opinion, an Associated Press-GfK poll has found. For the first time, most Americans expect government officials to issue marriage licenses to same-sex couples, even over religious objections.

.......

The question in recent months has entangled leaders with political sway, among them Pope Francis and the 2016 presidential contenders. But it's not a new conflict for a nation that has long wrestled with the separation of church and state.

Where Davis's answer was the First Amendment's protection of religious freedom — and she served jail time to back it up — a majority of respondents don't buy that argument when it comes to public officials issuing marriage licenses. That's a shift since an AP-GfK survey in July, when Americans were about evenly split.

Then, 49 percent said officials with religious objections should be exempt from issuing marriage licenses to same-sex couples and 47 percent said they should be required to issue them.

Now, just 41 percent favor an exemption and 56 percent think they should be required to issue the licenses.

That shift was especially stark among Republicans. A majority of them —58 percent — still favor religious exemptions for officials issuing marriage licenses, but that's down 14 points since 72 percent said so in July.


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steve knight

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When I see such things it makes me wonder how much the devil works through extreme religious people. They are so sure they are right they end up causing more bad then good. Bad to them not to normal people.
 

dec.

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When I see such things it makes me wonder how much the devil works through extreme religious people. They are so sure they are right they end up causing more bad then good. Bad to them not to normal people.
For some reason I assumed that you were an "Atheist". :)
 
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pdqgp

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I never figured it would cause a "backlash."

IMO it's just people valuing that officials abide by the law first vs their religious or personal opinions. It doesn't necessarily mean those same people are now changing their tune or view on gay marriage.
 

WarHeadz

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I never figured it would cause a "backlash."

IMO it's just people valuing that officials abide by the law first vs their religious or personal opinions. It doesn't necessarily mean those same people are now changing their tune or view on gay marriage.
By all polling right now, the same majority (and in some polls even more than that) also approves of same sex marriage in general. Either way, by both measures, opponents are the minority now.

And on a side note, many people's views on gay marriage are still changing. People have changes of heart every day. Do you think all the people who are against it today will stay that way forever? If you made that bet a few years ago you would have long lost it by now...
 

pdqgp

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By all polling right now, the same majority (and in some polls even more than that) also approves of same sex marriage in general. Either way, by both measures, opponents are the minority now.

And on a side note, many people's views on gay marriage are still changing. People have changes of heart every day. Do you think all the people who are against it today will stay that way forever? If you made that bet a few years ago you would have long lost it by now...
Meh still. Polls and Political Correctness aside, I'm sure there are some people, who have problem accepting it in the eyes of society. I know many. Heck, I really don't care either way on the gay thing. However, many of those same people still go home really are just tolerating it and still don't personally approve or think it's "normal" in their eyes.

Sorry if it hurts your feelings but I'm glad my kids aren't gay. I'm entitled to my opinion just as anyone.
 

Huntn

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When I see such things it makes me wonder how much the devil works through extreme religious people. They are so sure they are right they end up causing more bad then good. Bad to them not to normal people.
For some reason I assumed that you were an "Atheist". :)
It's the conservative religious people who externalize the Devil. Instead the Devil lives in us, is us. :)
 

WarHeadz

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Meh still. Polls and Political Correctness aside, I'm sure there are some people, who have problem accepting it in the eyes of society. I know many. Heck, I really don't care either way on the gay thing. However, many of those same people still go home really are just tolerating it and still don't personally approve or think it's "normal" in their eyes.

Sorry if it hurts your feelings but I'm glad my kids aren't gay. I'm entitled to my opinion just as anyone.
I think at least half of Americans view it as normal and fully accept it. The other 6-10% who say they do maybe just tolerate it like you say. But again, society is still changing. People are just starting to accept it as a fact of nature.

I can understand you saying you're glad your kids aren't gay, I'll probably be a bit relieved as well if my kids end up not being gay and are able to fit in the "norm" better, which is statistically probable. But if your kids were gay, you would fully accept them, wouldn't you?
 
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pdqgp

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I think at least half of Americans view it as normal and fully accept it.
We can agree to disagree. I don't "talk about it" much at all but I've yet to meet straight people who think guy on guy isn't nasty.

But if your kids were gay, you would fully accept them, wouldn't you?
I would accept and support and love them yes, but would forever not approve of it. Nothing is going to sway my opinion that it's nasty.
 

WarHeadz

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We can agree to disagree. I don't "talk about it" much at all but I've yet to meet straight people who think guy on guy isn't nasty.



I would accept and support and love them yes, but would forever not approve of it. Nothing is going to sway my opinion that it's nasty.
Here's the problem though, why do you continue to think only of the sexual aspect of it? That happens to be only one part of the relationship. What about love and commitment?

I think male on female is "nasty", does that mean I don't approve of straight relationships? Something doesn't have to personally appeal to your fancy for you to "approve" it.

Most of my friends are straight guys, I'm sure the thought of themselves having sex with a guy is gross, but they still "approve" of the fact that my sexual orientation happens to be different from their own and will welcome me and my future boyfriend/husband into their homes with open arms. Maybe because gay sex isn't the first thing they think about when they see me. Maybe they view me as a person and not just a gay guy. I guess some people can't separate sexual acts that are unappealing to them from the biological fact that some humans are in fact homosexual and their love is equal to yours, even if their sexual practices are different. Kind of immature that the only reason some "don't agree with" homosexuality is because it's "icky" to them. Glad most of our society has matured past that. Hopefully you will too some day.
 
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citizenzen

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I never figured it would cause a "backlash."

IMO it's just people valuing that officials abide by the law first vs their religious or personal opinions. It doesn't necessarily mean those same people are now changing their tune or view on gay marriage.
Like you say, there are probably many people who don't like the idea of gay marriage, but dislike even more the idea of public officials picking and choosing when and how to apply the law.


... And on a side note, many people's views on gay marriage are still changing. People have changes of heart every day. Do you think all the people who are against it today will stay that way forever? If you made that bet a few years ago you would have long lost it by now...
I completely agree. As time passes gay marriage will grow increasingly normal and acceptable, and those who persist on standing against it will be marginalized as out-of-step, out-of-touch, and irrelevant.
 
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pdqgp

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why do you continue to think of the sexual aspect of it?
because the reality is that it's a big aspect of it.

I think male on female is "nasty", does that mean I don't approve of straight relationships? Something doesn't have to personally appeal to your fancy for you to "approve" it.
That's fine if you don't approve of it. The reverse it true as well, you shouldn't care whether I "approve" of it. What bothers me is that society and especially the gay community think I have to "approve" of it or think it's okay. Bull.

Most of my friends are straight guys, I'm sure the thought of themselves having sex with a guy is gross, but they still "approve" of the fact that my sexual orientation happens to be different from their own and will welcome me and my future boyfriend/husband into their homes with open arms.
I have gay friends too. I don't shun them away. They may not approve or be 100% comfortable with my view on their sex life but it works for all so far.

Kind of immature that the only reason some "don't agree with" homosexuality is because it's "icky" to them. Glad most of our society has matured past that. Hopefully you will too some day.
You call it immature, I call it normal. The more "open" and tolerant or even accepting views of the younger generation shouldn't be confused with them not thinking it's "icky." If it makes you feel better sure, but the reality is even when my son is in school and they are teaching them about both views, he's the first to tell you if you ask that the kids in his class that aren't gay all still think it's icky. They accept it but their view hasn't changed.
 

WarHeadz

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because the reality is that it's a big aspect of it.



That's fine if you don't approve of it. The reverse it true as well, you shouldn't care whether I "approve" of it. What bothers me is that society and especially the gay community think I have to "approve" of it or think it's okay. Bull.



I have gay friends too. I don't shun them away. They may not approve or be 100% comfortable with my view on their sex life but it works for all so far.



You call it immature, I call it normal. The more "open" and tolerant or even accepting views of the younger generation shouldn't be confused with them not thinking it's "icky." If it makes you feel better sure, but the reality is even when my son is in school and they are teaching them about both views, he's the first to tell you if you ask that the kids in his class that aren't gay all still think it's icky. They accept it but their view hasn't changed.
Once again, thinking something is "icky" and not accepting it are two completely different things. Personal preference and general approval of others are not mutually exclusive. If you have gay friends that you associate with and would accept, love, and support your kids if they were gay, even if thinking about gay sex is "icky" to you, then you do by definition "approve" of it.

You don't have to watch gay porn or think man on man sex is hot in order to "approve" of gay people. No one is asking you for that.
 

pdqgp

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Once again, thinking something is "icky" and not accepting it are two completely different things. They're not mutually exclusive. If you have gay friends that you associate with and would accept, love, and support your kids if they were gay, even if thinking about gay sex is "icky" to you, then you do by definition "approve" of it.
Let me clarify for you, I will never Approve of it. I tolerate it. I make no bones about it either. I don't accept or condone it or think it's normal. It's part of life that I deal with. I also tolerate buying grapes that say seedless when half the time they aren't.
 

citizenzen

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because the reality is that it's a big aspect of it.
Just as sexuality is a big aspect of you life. Homosexuality is a big aspect of my life.

Humans are sexual beings.

I certainly wouldn't expect homosexuals to be any less open and expressive about their sexuality as homosexuals.
 

WarHeadz

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Let me clarify for you, I will never Approve of it. I tolerate it. I make no bones about it either. I don't accept or condone it or think it's normal. It's part of life that I deal with.
I brought up maturity before. The fact that you can't acknowledge a biological reality as "normal" because of your personal distaste for it is what I consider to be immature. It's not the fact that it's distasteful to you that makes it immature, it's the fact that you can't see past your distaste to accept it as a fact of life. Something that my generation can easily do and for the most part are very passionate about doing it. This is the definition of a maturing society.
 

pdqgp

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I brought up maturity before. The fact that you can't acknowledge a biological reality as "normal" because of your personal distaste for it is what I consider to be immature. It's not the fact that it's distasteful to you that makes it immature, it's the fact that you can't see past your distaste to accept it as a fact of life.
I don't acknowledge it as normal because when the percentages are so small it''s not normal. It's an exception to the masses that aren't gay. It is a fact of life but it's not the norm. Maturity has nothing to do with it. Biologically speaking man parts don't belong in the rear end of another man.
 

WarHeadz

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I don't acknowledge it as normal because when the percentages are so small it''s not normal. It's an exception to the masses that aren't gay. It is a fact of life but it's not the norm. Maturity has nothing to do with it. Biologically speaking man parts don't belong in the rear end of another man.
Something doesn't have to be common in order to be a normal occurrence and a fact of life. Also, Biologically speaking a man's parts don't belong in the rear of a woman either. But when i go for dinner at my straight friends houses I don't think much of the forms of sodomy they engage in...

If that's all you can think about, get your mind out of the gutter.
 

CalWizrd

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I brought up maturity before. The fact that you can't acknowledge a biological reality as "normal" because of your personal distaste for it is what I consider to be immature. It's not the fact that it's distasteful to you that makes it immature, it's the fact that you can't see past your distaste to accept it as a fact of life. Something that my generation can easily do and for the most part are very passionate about doing it. This is the definition of a maturing society.
Upon reading this, I guess I would be considered immature as well.

I have absolutely no problem with an individual living his/her life in whatever manner they choose, whether straight or gay makes no difference to me. It is not my right to try to dictate their life choices.

However, that in no way changes the fact that I personally would find the sexual aspects of a gay lifestyle distasteful. I do not accept that it is "normal", based simply upon the biological concept of the perpetuation of the species.

Bottom line is simple... your life, your lifestyle, your choices, your reality. Not mine to say.

Does that make me immature?
 
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WarHeadz

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Upon reading this, I guess I would be considered immature as well.

I have absolutely no problem with an individual living his/her life in whatever manner they choose, whether straight or gay makes no difference to me. It is not my right to try to dictate their life choices.

However, that in no way changes the fact that I personally would find the sexual aspects of a gay lifestyle distasteful. I do not accept that it is "normal", based simply upon the biological concept of the perpetuation of the species.

Bottom line is simple... your life, your lifestyle, your choices, your reality. Not mine to say.

Does that make me immature?
Kinda sorta. As long as you view homosexuality as a choice someone makes, yes, it's a sign of social immaturity by a modern standard.
 
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pdqgp

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Something doesn't have to be common in order to be a normal occurrence and a fact of life.
it does in my book. it sets a standard and the standard in humanity is a penis inside a woman not another man.

Also, Biologically speaking a man's parts don't belong in the rear of a woman either. But when i go for dinner at my straight friends houses I don't think much of the forms of sodomy they engage in...
your friends have different tastes than me but at least they are man/woman.