# The “Immoral Wall”

#### Solver

##### macrumors 6502a
Original poster
The “Immoral Wall”

Once upon a time a wall guarded a tree full of fruit. One sunny day a small child walked up to the wall and looked at the fruit, and wanted it. The child tried to climb the wall, but could not get over it.
“I want that fruit behind you and you are stopping me,” the child told the wall.
The wall responded, “Go to the gate and ring the bell.”
The child yelled, “I want that fruit! You are an immoral wall stopping me from getting it!”
The wall sighed, “I can do nothing about it. I’m just a wall. Go to the gate and ring the bell.”
But the child angrily kicked the wall, and hurt their foot.
The child cried, “Ouch! Look what you made me do! I’m going to tell everyone I know that all you walls are immoral!”
The wall watched sadly while the child ran away awkwardly toward a nearby house. The child wailed, “Mommy! Mommy! That immoral wall over there won’t give me what I want!”
Pelosi stepped outside of the house to find out what the ruckus was about.

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#### fitshaced

##### macrumors 68000
This is your case for a wall?

#### sean000

##### macrumors 68000
Unrealistic story. Children always figure out ways to climb walls. What neighborhood did you grow up in?

#### yaxomoxay

##### macrumors 68040
Damn kids. Time for some 10,000 volts. Kept the TRex out, will keep kids out.

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#### arkitect

##### macrumors 603
Why is the child petulant? It would be far more realistic if the child were hungry. If the child were running away from an abusive parent… Or perhaps (Shock!) the child's parents are already inside the wall and they are busy picking the fruit the fruit growers sell.
Then you would be dealing with morality.

We also have to work from the assumption that just ringing the bell opens the gate. Sure. That's the way it works.

Immigrants are not toddlers throwing a temper tantrum in the sweets (candy) aisle in the supermarket.

That is just an astonishingly simplistic way of viewing such a complex issue.

#### BeeGood

##### macrumors 68000
That is just an astonishingly simplistic way of viewing such a complex issue.
Well, it necessarily has to be simplistic.

If we don’t bury our heads in the sand and ignore the nuances, we might actually start to see people as humans as opposed to the criminals, rapists, invading hoards, and now, unruly children (I guess?) that they are.

Can’t have any of that business. Gotta keep the blinders on and stay on message.

#### kobalap

##### macrumors 6502
A wall is about as immoral as a pebble on the beach. It is just an object. Nothing more.

Now, if I had to pay for that pebble on the beach when Trump clearly said that Mexico would pay for it, then I would have issues.

#### Huntn

##### macrumors demi-god
A wall is about as immoral as a pebble on the beach. It is just an object. Nothing more.

Now, if I had to pay for that pebble on the beach when Trump clearly said that Mexico would pay for it, then I would have issues.
Um, what is immoral about a 2000 mile border wall, is spending \$5B or a Trillion, whatever the final price is, then add in it's upkeep. We have more pressing issues than this wall, and we have to figure out how to stop squandering trillions, and stop falling deeper into debt, that is what becomes immoral, stupid, a the sign we are failing big time as a Nation.

Ledgem

#### yaxomoxay

##### macrumors 68040
Um, what is immoral about a 2000 mile border wall, is spending \$5B or a Trillion, whatever the final price is, then add in it's upkeep. We have more pressing issues than this wall, and we have to figure out how to stop squandering trillions, and stop falling deeper into debt, that is what becomes immoral, stupid, a the sign we are failing big time as a Nation.
Ok, let's start with cutting the \$160M National Endowment for the Arts which is totally useless.

#### raqball

##### macrumors 68000
The “Immoral Wall”

Once upon a time a wall guarded a tree full of fruit. One sunny day a small child walked up to the wall and looked at the fruit, and wanted it. The child tried to climb the wall, but could not get over it.
“I want that fruit behind you and you are stopping me,” the child told the wall. The wall responded, “Go to the gate and ring the bell.”
The child yelled, “I want that fruit! You are an immoral wall stopping me from getting it!”
The wall sighed, “I can do nothing about it. I’m just a wall. Go to the gate and ring the bell.”
But the child angrily kicked the wall, and hurt their foot.
The child cried, “Ouch! Look what you made me do! I’m going to tell everyone I know that all you walls are immoral!”
The wall watched sadly while the child ran away awkwardly toward a nearby house. The child wailed, “Mommy! Mommy! That immoral wall over there won’t give me what I want!”
Pelosi stepped outside of the house to find out what the ruckus was about.
You left out the part where Nancy called the Tree a racist and a xenophobe not to mention 'icky apple wanting people'...

#### samcraig

##### macrumors P6
Ok, let's start with cutting the \$160M National Endowment for the Arts which is totally useless.
Excuse me? Why is it the arts that immediately get cut? Why do you think the arts (NEA) is useless?

#### jkcerda

##### macrumors 6502a
Excuse me? Why is it the arts that immediately get cut? Why do you think the arts (NEA) is useless?
ok, what do you suggest get cut?

Solver

#### yaxomoxay

##### macrumors 68040
Excuse me? Why is it the arts that immediately get cut? Why do you think the arts (NEA) is useless?
Because it's not the role of the American government to interfere with the arts and expressions.

#### kobalap

##### macrumors 6502
Um, what is immoral about a 2000 mile border wall, is spending \$5B or a Trillion, whatever the final price is, then add in it's upkeep. We have more pressing issues than this wall, and we have to figure out how to stop squandering trillions, and stop falling deeper into debt, that is what becomes immoral, stupid, a the sign we are failing big time as a Nation.
Your problem, like mine, is not the wall. Its the funding.

jkcerda

#### jkcerda

##### macrumors 6502a
https://www.arts.gov/
The National Endowment for the Arts is an independent federal agency that funds, promotes, and strengthens the creative capacity of our communities by providing all Americans with diverse opportunities for arts participation.
why are we funding this again? why can't cities tackle the project if they want it?

#### kobalap

##### macrumors 6502
ok, what do you suggest get cut?
Social security, medicare, Department of Education, Welfare, HUD.

We could go on and on and on.

tshrimp and Solver

#### jkcerda

##### macrumors 6502a
Social security, medicare, Department of Education, Welfare, HUD.

We could go on and on and on.
no thanks. lets cut down the military budget and spending first. all the ones you listed will result in a nasty snowball that will affect too many people.

Ledgem

#### samcraig

##### macrumors P6
Because it's not the role of the American government to interfere with the arts and expressions.
Interfere? Is helping fund artists "interfering"?

Perhaps you don't mean the negative connotation that the word interfering means. But that's how it read.

#### Solver

##### macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Because it's not the role of the American government to interfere with the arts and expressions.
That “living document” has grown quite a bit hasn’t it.

#### jkcerda

##### macrumors 6502a
Interfere? Is helping fund artists "interfering"?

Perhaps you don't mean the negative connotation that the word interfering means. But that's how it read.
why should we be "funding" artist?

Solver

#### yaxomoxay

##### macrumors 68040
Interfere? Is helping fund artists "interfering"?
Yes, it is.
It's just an old way of doing business with arts, finding a patron and "creating art" (which in this case does not even become property of the patron). We live in an age where people can make art in all sorts of ways, and sell it in all sort of ways. Etsy, Ebay, Amazon, etc. You can write a book and publish it yourself. You can even make a movie and sell it. You can create youtube videos and make millions. You can shoot pictures of yourself and make millions on IG.

If you art is good, and if you understand the business as you should, your art will sell. If not, it will not sell.
No need for gov't grants; if you need a gov't grant to make art, something is wrong.
[doublepost=1547136202][/doublepost]
That “living document” has grown quite a bit hasn’t it.
Scary part is that all that is living soon dies.

#### Solver

##### macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Interfere? Is helping fund artists "interfering"?

Perhaps you don't mean the negative connotation that the word interfering means. But that's how it read.
I have no problem helping people. I have a problem with the government having to hurt people to help people part.

tshrimp and jkcerda

#### samcraig

##### macrumors P6
Yes, it is.
It's just an old way of doing business with arts, finding a patron and "creating art" (which in this case does not even become property of the patron). We live in an age where people can make art in all sorts of ways, and sell it in all sort of ways. Etsy, Ebay, Amazon, etc. You can write a book and publish it yourself. You can even make a movie and sell it. You can create youtube videos and make millions. You can shoot pictures of yourself and make millions on IG.

If you art is good, and if you understand the business as you should, your art will sell. If not, it will not sell.
No need for gov't grants; if you need a gov't grant to make art, something is wrong.
[doublepost=1547136202][/doublepost]

Scary part is that all that is living soon dies.
I have no problem helping people. I have a problem with the government having to hurt people to help people part.
I guess some people don't understand what the NEA does and think it's just a handout for poor artists who don't want to earn a paycheck doing something else?

One of the great things the NEA does is help provide cultural education for schools around the country. Because education funding is not where it should be either.

https://www.arts.gov/news/2018/national-endowment-arts-announces-grants-support-arts-and-innovation-across-country

Meanwhile - you have government giving money to the NFL and to stand for the National Anthem

It turns out that from 2011-2014, the Department of Defense spent \$5.4 million in contracts with 14 NFL teams for flag ceremonies. The National Guard got in on the action too, and gave \$6.7 million to the NFL for the same kind of thing from 2013 to 2015.

Are those budgets on par with each other. No. But if you want to start cutting nickels and dimes - maybe start there. No reason why taxpayers should be paying for forced patriotism.

#### yaxomoxay

##### macrumors 68040
One of the great things the NEA does is help provide cultural education for schools around the country.
We have a Federal Education Department.
And an Education Department/Agency in each of the 50 states.
And 14,000 school districts.

As for the NFL I do agree with you. Cut 'em.