The American rebellion, will it be a revolution?

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by PracticalMac, Jan 17, 2017.

  1. PracticalMac macrumors 68030

    PracticalMac

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    #1
    The American rebellion, will it be a revolution?

    Donald Trump was elected because he is anti-establishment.

    Obama was also elected because he is anti-establishment.

    Consider that he was a little known Senator who was not white, had a strange name, and had a political stance that was not typical with establishment (he was one of few who voted against Iraq war).

    But the seeds of discontent where planted years earlier, by the election of G Bush, but NOT Bush himself but the all Republican House and Senate. During the Clinton era there was Republican calls of cutting back spending and other promises, yet under the new Bush presidency they mostly did not act on what they said they would do.

    Sara Palin shot to the top in the pre-TEA Party era by openly and viciously blasting Washing elite, much to chagrin of nominee McCain. After the 2008 loss her popularity among the middle only rose despite the criticism of beltway elites and news media.

    Obama made a couple of mortal political mistakes his first few weeks in office that undermined the rest of his presidency (then again, just about every new President makes damming mistakes at beginning).

    The bills passed in congress during the closing days of Bush and all of Obama became fodder for fear mongers, and the rise of the NRA.
    The 2ed Amendment is acknowledged as defense against tyranny so despite thousands of murders with firearms (approximately 80% caused by hand guns, not "assault weapons") it is seen more and more a protection from Washington DC.

    This growing resentment of Washington and populist revolt is seen in booting Eric Cantor and election of Ted Cruz, failure of stars Jeb and Marco, and inability to do anything with hot button issues like Immigration. Even a popularly Republican approved expansion of background check for gun purchases was dead.

    Then you have hard core Republican counties populated by wealthy educated people voting for Hillary while normally Democratic voting middle class rural voting for Trump.

    Trump is the embodiment of middle class Americas distrust and fear of DC.
    And I do not think both parties truly understand what is happening and the danger.



    The writing was on the wall 2 years (housing bubble, foreclosure news reports) before the Great Recession.
    It was obvious for those looking (widening wealth income gap) 3 years before Trump victory.
    And I see Trump as a warning to Washington to listen to middle America, not Wall Street and DC.

    (yes, it is my amateur opinion from thinking about why these political/social events happened.)
     
  2. Desertrat macrumors newbie

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    #2
    Business as usual on the part of the world's ruling elites--not just in the US--have hurt the world's Joe Sixpacks in many ways. The Internet has allowed ol' Joe to get a handle on how he's been screwed. Thus the increase in nationalism and populism has the high muckety-mucks at Davos quivering and pooping. They love globalization and the disparity of wealth it has engendered. Joe doesn't.

    The Left is in deep doo-doo; they just don't really get it. Tough stuff.
     
  3. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #3
    The right is just as clueless.

    And Davos isn't a left wing event.
     
  4. SLC Flyfishing Suspended

    SLC Flyfishing

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    #4
    Ah @vrDrew so much hate, so few threads to vent it all over.

    Seems you're a veritable expert on everything aren't you?
     
  5. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #5
    They don't live better than a few decades ago. That's the point.
     
  6. DearthnVader macrumors 6502

    DearthnVader

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    #6
    Speaking as the resident "racist moron" Trump voter, I don't see any shooting war coming from us, hell we won. Doesn't mean it won't be a revolution in the way things are done, we'll have to wait a few days and see how that starts to shake out.

    To me the only revolution worth having, would be the one to return the power to create the nations sole money supply to the people's government, away from the private banks.

    I could care less what happens at Davos, what matters is Jackson Hole and the other Fed meetings, as well as how many times the US's credit rating gets downgraded. Just a few percentage points raise in interest rates will mean hundreds of billions more in interest payments on our $20 trillion in debt. Taking a couple of hundred billion out of the Federal budget to pay more interest is going to hurt people on Main St.

    In short, it's our debt that is the biggest problem, and I don't see Trump or Congress as being too concerned about it. Trump says he plans to cut taxes, beef up the military, build a wall, and spend billion on infrastructure. Doesn't sound too much to me that budget deficits and government borrowing are not going to balloon.

    We can't just keep stealing from the future to try and maintain our lifestyle, and expect there will never come a time when the bill is due.
     
  7. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #7
    I don't think debt is a significant problem. My mortgage is currently over 100% of my annual before tax income and was initially ~3.5x my salary.
     
  8. DearthnVader macrumors 6502

    DearthnVader

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    #8
    Tell that to Greece.
     
  9. Huntn, Jan 18, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2017

    Huntn macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #9
    A revolution is possible, if the economic slide continues for the majority of Americans, hitting them hard enough.

    You missed the target. Don't let your politics skew your vision, especially if you think the Right is home free. The entire country is in deep ****. If you did not notice, the establishment Right fought Trump tooth and nail, because Trump did not represent the Right, he was propelled by the bottom tier who by some accounts are racists or zenophobes, and more importantly who want something given to them, such as opportunity, jobs, education, health care, maybe a level playing field, the things that embody a good life. It's easy to argue that the Left is better equipped to supply these things if you look at all of society, not just whites.

    One other observation- Liberals and liberal values: its a standard that shines regardless of how in vogue it is, grounded in fairness and level playing fields, and belief that a regulatory system, similar to a economic police department is required to maintain order and fairness in society.

    Liberals believe in government action to achieve equal opportunity and equality for all. It is the duty of the government to alleviate social ills and to protect civil liberties and individual and human rights. (Link- makes good comparisons)

    We've witnessed this in action, in the realm of freedom, and equal rights. On the other hand Conservatives seem to think that level playing fields just automatically happen when individuals are left on their own to succeed, while ignoring human greed and prejudice.

    If you think that when the Democrats lose all political power, which is not probable, that all the issues I mentioned above will magically evaporate? The Republicans with their views on big business given free reign to economically pillage are just as likely to have a revolution on their hands if they allow wealth to accumulate in a just a few hands.
     
  10. DearthnVader macrumors 6502

    DearthnVader

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    #10
    Equality of wealth, of education, and natural ability can not be produced by human institutions, but when the law undertakes to add to these just advantages to add artificial distinctions, to grant titles, gratuities, and exclusive privileges, to make the rich richer and the potent more powerful, people have a right to seek recourse.
     
  11. aaronvan Suspended

    aaronvan

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    #11
    An armed revolution that actually overthrows the governmental system that has existed since 1776 is extremely unlikely.

    A political revolution that smashes the existing alt-Left establishment elite and explodes the neo-liberal globalization cabal is already underway, as illustrated by the success of American patriots such as Trump, Sanders, and Johnson. It's time for the American government to start working for American citizens.
     
  12. Huntn macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #12
    A general statement...
    Ideally, government is the mechanism that ensures the economic level playing field, with equal opportunity, with equal civil rights, including educational opportunities, but does not mandate blind total equality, which is not really possible or fair. Individual effort has to be required to succeed, unless there is a valid reason why an exception is granted, say physical or mental impairment.

    If government is not regarded as the right mechanism to create this environment, then what is? Just allowing economic power to accumulate in a few hands is not a viable solution for democracy.
     
  13. DearthnVader macrumors 6502

    DearthnVader

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    #13
    I didn't say Government wasn't the right mechanism, but Government gets too concerned with equality, when it should be concerned with equity. This is what allows the wealth to accumulate into the hands of the few.
     
  14. Huntn macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #14
    As I said, a general,statement, not an accusation directed at you. :)
     
  15. DearthnVader macrumors 6502

    DearthnVader

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    #15
    What would people rather have, an equal position, where everyone was equally poor, or an equitable position, where everyone had some financial equity?

    Governance has been feeding us all a line of BS about how it is going to give this group or that equality, when what people need is equity. With money people can fight their own battles for equality.
     
  16. PracticalMac thread starter macrumors 68030

    PracticalMac

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    #16
    You are confusing deeply worried desperate people with the handful of oafs.

    Donald Trump’s Victory Was Built on Unique Coalition of White Voters

    Trump’s Promises Will Be Hard to Keep, but Coal Country Has Faith

    America's 'Forgotten' Hear Trump's Economic Battle Cry, But Will He Deliver?
     
  17. Chew Toy McCoy macrumors regular

    Chew Toy McCoy

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    #17
    As disgusted as we are with our government we’re still way more disgusted with our own populous (thanks news media) to have a real revolution. So we’ll just continue to change the controlling party back and forth through voting and nothing substantial will change. We’re too busy taking our frustration out on poor or culturally different people because we’re big bullies as individuals and a country. We’re too scared and weak to fight any battles where we don’t have a substantial advantage and certainly aren’t willing to make any personal short term sacrifices for any long term greater good. A lot of us feel we’ve already suffered enough and won’t give another inch.
     
  18. Huntn macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #18
    It depends on what you are proposing. Many Americans already receive assistance. A recent report claimed that with the automation available today, 50% of all human labor jobs could be replaced. At some point in the future, I could see us becoming more socialist than we already are. An observation more than a desire, although I don't see a dog eat dog, every person for themselves system as the way forward. Whether it is a fantasy or a possibility, I like the idea of the Star Trek Socialist Utopia. :)
     
  19. DearthnVader macrumors 6502

    DearthnVader

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    #19
    Let me know when they have those replicators ready, that free of charge, will produce every human need and desire.

    Until then people will still need money.
     
  20. Huntn macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #20
    It's coal country's pipe dream. Prepare for disappointment miners. There's a long history of the evolution of technology that requires workers to change their professions.
    --- Post Merged, Jan 18, 2017 ---
    I accept your faith, however there is no factual yardstick at this point that measures Trump as a patriot.
    --- Post Merged, Jan 18, 2017 ---
    What do you propose?
     
  21. DearthnVader macrumors 6502

    DearthnVader

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    #21
    To start with, when banks come crying to the Government, saying they need a bailout, we tell them to go fly a kite.
     
  22. Chew Toy McCoy macrumors regular

    Chew Toy McCoy

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    #22

    Are you suggesting that only Democrat politicians are big on corporatism and by extension globalization?

    I think the biggest Republican upset with Trump is he is going to attempt to undo Democrat decisions that were actually straight out of the Republican playbook and with their man at the helm they now can’t fake outrage over their own general policies.
     
  23. vrDrew, Jan 18, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2017

    vrDrew macrumors 65816

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    #23
    No, I don't think I am. I heard that same NPR story. My takeaway:

    This whole idea that the white middle-class is somehow "the forgotten man" in American politics is absurd. Everything from highway spending; to Federally guaranteed mortgages and defense spending is designed to improve the lot of the white middle-class.

    Globalization makes all of society richer. This is a fundamental economic fact. It's cheaper to build cars and airplanes and toaster ovens if you are building them for a market of billions rather than one of a few millions. It's cheaper to pull bauxite (aluminum ore) out of the ground in Australia than it in Wisconsin. And it only makes economic sense to build Mercedes SUVs in Alabama and Ford pickup trucks in Michigan if you can import alternators and HVAC systems from factories in Mexico.

    Globalization makes all of society richer. The job of Government policy is to ensure that the benefits of that wealth is spread as equitably as possible among as wide a portion of society as is consistent with a profit-making free-enterprise system.

    And giving people who are already incredibly wealthy a massive tax cut is not the way to make that happen.
     
  24. Chew Toy McCoy macrumors regular

    Chew Toy McCoy

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    #24

    But as Americans we don’t give a damn about society outside our own. And there the problem lies. If 500 Mexican lives in Mexico improve as long as just my life doesn’t improve or stagnates then I’m going to be mad about it. All me all the time!
     
  25. DrewDaHilp1 macrumors 6502a

    DrewDaHilp1

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    #25
    Never change, never change.
     

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