"The AppStore isn’t perfect, but it’s better than an open one."

anjinha

macrumors 604
Original poster
Oct 21, 2006
7,271
62
San Francisco, CA
Not saying I agree with the article but I just figured it would be interesting to discuss:

Macgasm said:
There’s a couple things that have been on my mind for quite a while, and I’ve only just started to be able to figure them out in my head. I thought this would be a good place to get a discussion going about some things that have been starting to annoy me lately, and I wonder if others are feeling the same way I am.
I’m here for the quick buck

What are the ethics in creating an application for the AppStore, charging money for it, and then abandoning it’s development, but still charging for an application that has known bugs?

We’re in the early stages of the AppStore, but this seems to be something that’s going to have to be looked at eventually. With new iterations of iPhones and Touches coming yearly, there will eventually be a tipping point where applications will cease to work on either device, unless they get some more attention from developers.
Full article here.
 

Small White Car

macrumors G4
Aug 29, 2006
10,902
1,164
Washington DC
How is that any different than any other software?

How many programs only work with Windows XP or just Tiger?

The only difference is that eventually Best Buy (or whoever) pulls them off the shelves. I guess that's the point here...will Apple eventually start pulling apps off the store that won't work with iPhones newer than 3 or 4 years old?
 

Rodimus Prime

macrumors G4
Oct 9, 2006
10,136
4
I think the article missed one key point that many people who are defending the apple apps store completely pass over time and time again.

It is the fact that for the iPhone and iTouch the apps store is the ONLY place to buy and sell apps. If devs could open their own app store for the iPhone or sell/Give away their apps threw their own personal web site this apples policies for the apps store would be fine.

I personally would have no problem with apple current policies if people were allowed to download apps from other locations because if so people could always go around apple. These would leave apple as the safe point of purchase but not the only one so if a great app (lets say GV) apple can block ti from their app store but I could still download it straight from google.

Apple should get heat for it practices because as a single point of sale they should put veyr few if any barriers for the devs.
 

MTI

macrumors 65816
Feb 17, 2009
1,107
6
Scottsdale, AZ
Apple should get heat for it practices because as a single point of sale they should put veyr few if any barriers for the devs.
However, Apple is being consistent in its practice of developing and marketing consumer products that are "closed systems" under the company's control. In a sense, that's part of "the deal" when you buy their products.
 

dukebound85

macrumors P6
Jul 17, 2005
18,138
1,450
5045 feet above sea level
However, Apple is being consistent in its practice of developing and marketing consumer products that are "closed systems" under the company's control. In a sense, that's part of "the deal" when you buy their products.
explain why i can install any app from anywhere on the web on my computer as long as its developed for osx?
 

Point2G

macrumors newbie
Nov 10, 2009
21
0
These are growing pains and the app store will hopefully grow more and pain us less.
 

sidewinder

macrumors 68020
Dec 10, 2008
2,425
129
Northern California
I think the article missed one key point that many people who are defending the apple apps store completely pass over time and time again.

It is the fact that for the iPhone and iTouch the apps store is the ONLY place to buy and sell apps. If devs could open their own app store for the iPhone or sell/Give away their apps threw their own personal web site this apples policies for the apps store would be fine.

I personally would have no problem with apple current policies if people were allowed to download apps from other locations because if so people could always go around apple. These would leave apple as the safe point of purchase but not the only one so if a great app (lets say GV) apple can block ti from their app store but I could still download it straight from google.

Apple should get heat for it practices because as a single point of sale they should put veyr few if any barriers for the devs.
Rodimus Prime,

Why do you keep ignoring the fact that Apple needs to keep an eye on apps to insure a consistent user experience?

The iPhone is an appliance as far as Apple is concerned. They feel the iPhone needs to provide a consistent look, feel, performance level, and user experience. They need to make sure the iPhone does not present a security risk to the customer's data. They want to make sure that some rogue app does not use, modify, or delete data it should not. This is a reasonable business decision that I agree with it.

The app store concept is the only way to do this. I have no problems with the app store concept. Apple could make the process more transparent and faster for the developers. I would bet they are working on that as we speak.

But I would much rather have it the way it is than some free for all. All it would take is one popular app with a backdoor of some type built-in and all hell would break lose.

No thank you....

S-
 

Rodimus Prime

macrumors G4
Oct 9, 2006
10,136
4
Rodimus Prime,

Why do you keep ignoring the fact that Apple needs to keep an eye on apps to insure a consistent user experience?

The iPhone is an appliance as far as Apple is concerned. They feel the iPhone needs to provide a consistent look, feel, performance level, and user experience. They need to make sure the iPhone does not present a security risk to the customer's data. They want to make sure that some rogue app does not use, modify, or delete data it should not. This is a reasonable business decision that I agree with it.

The app store concept is the only way to do this. I have no problems with the app store concept. Apple could make the process more transparent and faster for the developers. I would bet they are working on that as we speak.

But I would much rather have it the way it is than some free for all. All it would take is one popular app with a backdoor of some type built-in and all hell would break lose.

No thank you....

S-
Again you failed to address my argument and just said Apple way is great. Apple refuses to clean up its act and just making the problems worse. Now posted on theses boards is 3 of the bigger app devs have stated they are done developing for the iPhone because of the review process. I think that says something when knownly great devs are walking away.

All apple has to do to solve all of its problems and cover from taking heat is allow apps be installed from another place. Then the app store can have whatever covering it wants and easily the one apple covers.
 

Eraserhead

macrumors G4
Nov 3, 2005
10,410
10,919
UK
will Apple eventually start pulling apps off the store that won't work with iPhones newer than 3 or 4 years old?
They already started that for 3.0:

All apps must be compatible with iPhone OS 3.0
Millions of iPhone and iPod touch customers will move to iPhone OS 3.0 this summer. Beginning today, all submissions to the App Store will be reviewed on the latest beta of iPhone OS 3.0. If your app submission is not compatible with iPhone OS 3.0, it will not be approved.

Existing apps in the App Store should already run on iPhone OS 3.0 without modification, but you should test your existing apps with iPhone OS 3.0 to ensure there are no compatibility issues. After iPhone OS 3.0 becomes available to customers, any app that is incompatible with iPhone OS 3.0 may be removed from the App Store.
http://www.macrumors.com/2009/05/07...ing-reviewed-for-iphone-os-3-0-compatibility/
 

kdarling

macrumors P6
But I would much rather have it the way it is than some free for all. All it would take is one popular app with a backdoor of some type built-in and all hell would break lose.
Sandboxing of apps is what protects users, and that doesn't require anyone at Apple to look at them.

Apple's quick vetting of apps does nothing to prevent backdoors. If someone did discover a way around the sandbox, they could simply set it to trigger months from now, long after Apple's approval.
 

firewood

macrumors 604
Jul 29, 2003
7,735
956
Silicon Valley
complaining all the way to the bank...

Developers complain, but there's still more customer money going into the the iPhone's tightly controlled app store than into any other mobile device's more open app stores.

How many people still shop at PalmGear? How many people buy a Centro or Treo just so they can shop for the thousands of PalmOS apps that aren't vetted or restricted? And the PalmOS app stores are far more open than the ones for Android. PalmOS apps are allowed to do native code OS patching, which Android has closed off to regular developers.

Comparing those 3 types of stores (PalmOS, Android, iTunes), the more open to store, the less money there is to be made.

ymmv.
 

Rodimus Prime

macrumors G4
Oct 9, 2006
10,136
4
Developers complain, but there's still more customer money going into the the iPhone's tightly controlled app store than into any other mobile device's more open app stores.

How many people still shop at PalmGear? How many people buy a Centro or Treo just so they can shop for the thousands of PalmOS apps that aren't vetted or restricted? And the PalmOS app stores are far more open than the ones for Android. PalmOS apps are allowed to do native code OS patching, which Android has closed off to regular developers.

Comparing those 3 types of stores (PalmOS, Android, iTunes), the more open to store, the less money there is to be made.

ymmv.

one key problem with that agrument. How many iPhone are out there compared to Palm or android phone.

Oh wait the iPhone out numbers them by a long shot so of course there are going to be more apps and money going into the app store.
 

milani

macrumors 68000
Aug 8, 2008
1,666
0
It is the fact that for the iPhone and iTouch the apps store is the ONLY place to buy and sell apps. If devs could open their own app store for the iPhone or sell/Give away their apps threw their own personal web site this apples policies for the apps store would be fine.
Exactly.
 

Morn

macrumors 6502
Oct 26, 2005
398
0
However, Apple is being consistent in its practice of developing and marketing consumer products that are "closed systems" under the company's control. In a sense, that's part of "the deal" when you buy their products.
The ironic thing, is the whole reason Apple exists as a company, is because of the open nature of the Apple 2.

And the Macintosh was open too, the Lisa made it pretty hard to make 3rd party apps. But the Macintosh was designed to be an open software platform, and with the Macintosh 2 it became an open hardware platform too, with the NuBus expansion slots.
OS X is a far more open OS than Windows too, having an open source unix foundation.
I'd say that you're completely wrong, Apple is not about closed systems at all. Only the iPhone is. And they better stop this or people will eventually tire of it and jump ship to Android.
 

sidewinder

macrumors 68020
Dec 10, 2008
2,425
129
Northern California
You guys still don't get it. The iPhone is an appliance that happens to run a computer OS. It's not meant to be completely open. It's not meant to have any old piece of software running on it.

It's open in the sense that anyone that wants to can write an app for it as long as that app meets Apple's guidelines and is willing to go through the Apple app approval process.

S-
 

Morn

macrumors 6502
Oct 26, 2005
398
0
No I do get that.
And I think it's the wrong way for Apple to handle the iPhone. It should be treated as computer. Because it's really a pocket computer.
It disgusts me that Apple thinks they can act as censor and gatekeeper, It's my device let me decide what software to have on it.
 

mkrishnan

Moderator emeritus
Jan 9, 2004
29,777
12
Grand Rapids, MI, USA
one key problem with that agrument. How many iPhone are out there compared to Palm or android phone.

Oh wait the iPhone out numbers them by a long shot so of course there are going to be more apps and money going into the app store.
It's a circular argument. One can talk all one wants about how Apple might have done even better with a different strategy, but with the liberty of creating their own phones, OSes, or app stores for other people's OSes, numerous others have not achieved the success that Apple did.

Symbian in particular vastly dwarfs the iPhone/iPod franchise in terms of units sold, does it not? And Symbian has had some sort of app store in existence for at least six years now? How is that going?

I think Apple should continue tweaking what they've got. In the meantime I encourage everyone else to keep working on stuff and see if they can't beat it. But pretending like Apple's strategy is the dumbest thing an MBA ever thought of is silly when it is doing this well.
 

Morn

macrumors 6502
Oct 26, 2005
398
0
Symbian in particular vastly dwarfs the iPhone/iPod franchise in terms of units sold, does it not? And Symbian has had some sort of app store in existence for at least six years now? How is that going?
What makes the app store work is it's ease of use and great interface. Just browse in itunes, click download. Done. Nothing to do with it's closed nature.
Google does it differently and the correct way in android, any app is automatically submitted to their store and is then taken down if there are issues, ie malware. And the user can manually install any software not on their store.
But, I put up with Apple's system because it's a better OS... sigh.
 

Rodimus Prime

macrumors G4
Oct 9, 2006
10,136
4
You guys still don't get it. The iPhone is an appliance that happens to run a computer OS. It's not meant to be completely open. It's not meant to have any old piece of software running on it.

It's open in the sense that anyone that wants to can write an app for it as long as that app meets Apple's guidelines and is willing to go through the Apple app approval process.

S-
problem with the so call "guild lines" is apple has never released what they are and then apple keeps changing them.
 

bozzykid

macrumors 68020
Aug 11, 2009
2,177
238
Why do you keep ignoring the fact that Apple needs to keep an eye on apps to insure a consistent user experience?
Because that isn't what the approval process does. It is there for protecting Apple's copyrights (stupidly in many cases) and for blocking apps that AT&T doesn't agree with. In 99.99% of the cases, buggy apps will get approved. The approval process has nothing to do with security or making sure apps are consistent with the UI. Apps run in the sandbox so if there is a security hole, it is in the core iPhone software. The approval process doesn't even look at this. Just look at the apps that have been approved that use undocumented APIs.
 

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