The Bible

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by mscriv, Jan 25, 2011.

  1. mscriv macrumors 601

    mscriv

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    #1
    Hey All,

    I'm not trying to start a debate, but knowing how things are around here I'm sure it will ensue. From time to time threads in the PRSI touch on faith issues and the Bible gets brought up in many of those discussions.

    My church is doing a current sermon series on the Bible and I thought I would put a link here for any who might be interested in viewing the online videos. At present, we're three weeks into it. Some of the questions about historical accuracy, reliability, errors, etc. are addressed. Like always it comes down to an issue of "faith", but I just thought some, on both sides of the issue, might want want to take a look whether it be for personal, educational, or entertainment purposes. Anyway, enjoy:

    LINK
     
  2. gkarris macrumors 604

    gkarris

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    #2
    Or "interpretation".

    I had a discussion with my Aunt and showed her (in the Roman Catholic Bible) that Mary is no longer a virgin. She said that it's not what that says (it really means something else), and that is heresy and I'm going to Hell (since I'm no longer a Catholic anyways).

    Then there's that whole "Manifestation of The Holy Spirit of God" thing where only God shows himself to Hyper-Charismatics.... :rolleyes:

    Enjoy...
     
  3. mscriv thread starter macrumors 601

    mscriv

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    #3
    Yeah, I never quite understood the Catholic belief in the eternal virginity of Mary. I would say that is an example of upholding doctrine or church tradition above what the Bible actually says.
     
  4. Tomorrow macrumors 604

    Tomorrow

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    #4
    Which, in the world of Christianity, happens far, far too often for my liking.

    I wish Christians as a whole would put aside quibbles such as this (nitpicking over the literal meaning of every single word) and just look at the Big Picture.
     
  5. Lord Blackadder macrumors G5

    Lord Blackadder

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    #5
    There are several thousand different Christian sects out there; each one is convinced that all the others are wayward in their belief, but all claim the same divine inspiration for their own "correct" interpretation.
     
  6. jav6454 macrumors P6

    jav6454

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    #6
    I disagree with that and the Pope, the Bible never mentions anything about a man being a vicar of Christ...

    Reading the Bible is like reading any other book from old days, you must understand the historical and contextual situation of the person writing the book before calling out things.
     
  7. FreeState macrumors 68000

    FreeState

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    #7
    For those interested in the other side of the argument of the Bible (New Testament focused) you may want to check out this book:

    http://www.amazon.com/Nailed-Christian-Myths-Jesus-Existed/dp/0557709911


    Its on my list to read but I have not had time yet. I was raised in a Bible believing household so I always find these topics interesting.
     
  8. mscriv thread starter macrumors 601

    mscriv

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    #8
    ^^^ Thanks for jumping in and posting the link. It's always good to have multiple perspectives represented. Sadly, I think many people who profess faith feel threatened when differing views are presented. Questions are an important part of faith. There's no reason to get defensive or aggressive when people inquire or challenge your worldview.
     
  9. FreeState macrumors 68000

    FreeState

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    #9
    Agree completely - its always best to try and remove yourself and emotions when learning (not always easy though!). Its amazing what you learn that way.
     
  10. Sydde macrumors 68020

    Sydde

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    #10
    Problem is, the church has answers. Unanswered questions are not tolerable. Even invalid or dangerous answers may be provided, just so long as questions are adequately dealt with.
     
  11. AnimaLeo macrumors 6502

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    #11
    "Most of us have one if not many copies in our home. " LOL. Not in the UK, mate.
     
  12. Rt&Dzine macrumors 6502a

    Rt&Dzine

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    #12
    "Most of us have one if not many copies in our home. We've heard it's stories since we were children. It is very familiar to us."

    This is part of the reason many people believe it to be true. It has been part of their entire lives. They can't view it objectively.
     
  13. mscriv thread starter macrumors 601

    mscriv

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    #13
    Well, you gotta remember that I live in the "Bible belt" here in the states. In the first message (first video at the link above) our Small Groups Paster ripped pages out of his Bible while preaching to illustrate a point. You could feel the wave of shock and discomfort pass through the crowd. It really upset some people, which only proved his point more. I thought it was great, but hey, I like experiential learning and object lessons.

    I've been told by others and even read on this board that faith is not really discussed in the UK. Has it really dwindled that much in the last couple hundred years?

    By the way, if you'd like a copy of the Bible I'll be happy to help you get one.
     
  14. Sydde macrumors 68020

    Sydde

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    #14
    I think I was listening to the first one. I got this far:

    Assuming he was talking about the christian bible, this is just plain incorrect. But like with doctrine, repeat the lie over and over and eventually people will start believing it.
     
  15. iStudentUK macrumors 65816

    iStudentUK

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    #15
    Really?

    Some people on my road in London have taken to placing piles of spare bibles out in the street as their houses are full of bibles. The council have had to start special rubbish collections just for bibles. Plus, last week I couldn't get on the train at the station by my house as there were so many bibles on the platform.

    It's a serious problem. I'm lucky that I have a strict no-bibles-in-my-home policy.
     
  16. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #16
    I listened to the first part of the first video you linked to, and I must say that what the guy was saying about the 25,000 archaeological digs finding no evidence which contradicts the bible, the 2,500 prophecies, the absolute inerrancy of the bible, is simply wrong. Many, many biblical "facts" have no evidence supporting them, many cities mentioned are in the wrong timeframe, the list of kings is palpably less reliable than Manetho's list of Egyptian kings and pharaohs, the very year of Jesus' supposed birth is provably incorrect because of Herod's dates, the size, dates and even location of Solomon's kingdom are demonstrably wrong. The ludicrous lifespans attributed to Noah, Methuselah and others are plain silly, the origin of homo sapiens is pure myth. What has been transmitted of Jesus' purported words certainly comprises a fine philosophy - not original, but fine nonetheless - and he evidently inspired many good people and was revered in his time, but to jump from there to his being God Incarnate is an enormous leap, and quite unwarranted.

    I have a bible, incidentally, right next to Herodotus and Homer in my bookcase.
     
  17. Rt&Dzine macrumors 6502a

    Rt&Dzine

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    #17
    Amen!
     
  18. rdowns macrumors Penryn

    rdowns

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    #18

    Very nice offer but I think the Internet has figured that one out. :D
     

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  19. mscriv thread starter macrumors 601

    mscriv

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    #19
    How about you guys post or send me some information on the archaelogical digs and facts that have plainly disproven things and I'll gladly look it over and even take it to my church's pastoral staff. I'm not being sarcastic or challenging here, I mean it. In all of my study I haven't come across finds that "flat out disprove" anything. I've found scholars who theorize based on "such and such", but never a factual disproval of "x" point or fact. He gave some examples of finds that have proven things, did you guys listen to those parts, like the pool of Bethesda.

    I think when we are dealing with history and archaeology we have to keep in mind that we aren't going to find something that proves the entirety of the Bible in one fact or discovery. There will be no indisputable evidence of incarnation or of a miracle, but there will be other facts and finds that lend credence in terms of historical contextual clues. Like you said skunk, dates, locations, cultural confirmations, etc. I'd be interested to see the research to which you guys are referring.

    Oh, and let's clear up one thing right now. The argument that the Bible is innerrant in a word for word "literal" sense is ludacris. Scripture is not meant to be taken "literally". It is meant to be read and understood, like all writing, in respect to it's intended meaning, in context, and according to the style of writing it is. You do not read history the same way your read poetry or a letter the same way you read prophecy. So please, let's not even make any silly "literal" arguments. The concept of "innerrancy" is the belief that scripture is without error in it's transmission of God's revelation to mankind regarding who He is and his relationship to his creation.

    Last, like I said in the beginning, ultimately it's a matter of faith.

    Well played sir. Even the Bible is pirated. :p
     
  20. iStudentUK macrumors 65816

    iStudentUK

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    #20
    What is taken to be literal and what metaphorical? Do I take the idea or heaven and hell as metaphors and some of the nastier areas of the bible as literal? Or the other way around as it is more comfortable?

    I don't see faith as a virtue. I'd much rather people based their views on evidence and showed greater scepticism.
     
  21. Rt&Dzine macrumors 6502a

    Rt&Dzine

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    #21
    Just wondering, how do you know for a fact that the Bible isn't meant to be taken literally?
     
  22. chrmjenkins macrumors 603

    chrmjenkins

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    #22
    There are many passages which are preposterous if taken literally. For instance, Jesus' insistence that we pluck out our own eyes if they cause us to sin. I don't think any interpretation of that passage would point to anything but removing the things from your life that cause you to sin in an intelligent way (removing yourself from a situation rather than preventing yourself from being able to perceive said situation).
     
  23. Lord Blackadder macrumors G5

    Lord Blackadder

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    #23
    Archaeology is constantly being hijacked as a means to prove something that religious people believe anyway. I'm an archaeologist myself, and while there is ample archaeological and historical evidence to suggest that many of the peoples and places in the Bible are real and not imagined, there is not one shred of archaeological or historical evidence that proves or disproves the existence of the supernatural events in the bible.

    Archaeology and faith have in some people and even institutions become conflated, in the mistaken belief that God, Christianity, miracles and/or other faith-based notions can be scientifically documented. That is simply false. Archaeology can neither prove nor disprove the vailidity of religion.
     
  24. Sydde macrumors 68020

    Sydde

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    #24
    Probably the most important one is the Sinai. The lack of evidence isbreath-taking. They can find evidence of small groups of nomads, how can an entire city, half a million wanderers, spend forty years in the Sinai and leave virtually no trace?
    In the first place, there are those who disagree. Seventh Day Adventists and many SBC churches teach literal interpretation.

    But more importantly, what then is it worth? If you ha e to tease the meaning out of it, at what point does it stop being god's voice and become what you (or your preacher) want it to be?

    Oh, and I think the copyright has expired for most of the text. It cannot be "pirated".
     
  25. Rt&Dzine macrumors 6502a

    Rt&Dzine

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    #25
    So do you take any parts literally? Or none? If some are literal, how do you determine? By how preposterous it sounds? For instance Adam and Eve or Jesus rising from the dead?
     

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