The biggest impediment to Obamacare is the Republican Party

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by dogslobber, May 26, 2017.

  1. dogslobber macrumors 68020

    dogslobber

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    #1
  2. mac_in_tosh, May 26, 2017
    Last edited: May 28, 2017

    mac_in_tosh macrumors regular

    mac_in_tosh

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    It seems the main objection the GOP had to Obamacare was the "Obama" part. They tried to weaken the legislation as much as possible and then spent years demonizing what eventually passed. Insurance exchanges and the individual mandate were ideas from a conservative think tank and features of Romneycare that they praised as being sensible ways to manage health care. But, as McConnell promised when Obama was elected, the GOP's goal was to make sure that he wasn't successful, an almost treasonous stance.
     
  3. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    #3
    Obamacare never worked, insurance companies were dropping out and coops were failing before Trump had a presidential twinkle in his eye. The Dems held off on fully implementing the tax parts and heavily subsidized the entire system to the tune of billions to keep it afloat. If it were self sustainable there would be nothing Trump could do.
     
  4. Chew Toy McCoy macrumors regular

    Chew Toy McCoy

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    Blind party loyalty from the top down and ravenously attacking the other side at all costs is what ruined everything. Both parties had their valid values but now they are both dumpster fires that can only agree on improving things for the population as long as it first benefits the rich or doesn't impact them in a negative way.
     
  5. mac_in_tosh macrumors regular

    mac_in_tosh

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    The system prior to Obamacare didn't work if you consider the confusing bureaucracy, the number of uninsured, the escalating costs, the arbitrariness of insurance company decisions, etc.
     
  6. blackfox macrumors 65816

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    So...The ACA could've worked better if the GOP got on board back when they were asked (circa it's inception ). As it came out, it was far from perfect...but it was a start. Since 2009 the GOP have been steadfast against the ACA, even when they had (multiple) chances to be pragmatic. Insurance companies like the ACA - it gives them a giant pool of new Customers. The failures of the Exchanges now are, for the most part, a reaction by Insurance Companies to the fact that the ACA does not have the Faith of the US Government behind it anymore.

    Anyhow, why would you need to blow up a fixable plan already in place? ACA - not perfect. GOP - you were asked for your input and largely refused 8 years ago. Now the GOP has all the marbles. If they would just tweak the ACA and fix some flaws - they would be a shoe-in for most Elections in the foreseeable future...
     
  7. jkcerda macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

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    20 trillion in debt. How much better do you want to make obamas failure?
     
  8. zin macrumors 6502

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    Insurers were dropping like flies before Trump even won. Your article is about the cost-sharing subsidies, which is arguably part of the reason why Obamacare has improved coverage at the expense of runaway costs. If the government guarantees subsidies for low-income individuals then there is no incentive for participants in the healthcare industry to lower costs. Why would they? Low-income people are guaranteed a subsidy, which means their demand for services is being artificially maintained by the government, which will pay whatever is required.

    The entire Obamacare model is a scam. The only options are either single payer or a fully market-based system, not some freak hybrid that costs double what the rest of the developed world pays.
     
  9. Thomas Veil macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

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    I'm glad somebody posted this. I was thinking about it, but you beat me to it.

    And yet insurance companies, the AMA, hospitals and patient advocate groups were all consulted about the ACA when it was written, and were on board. It's a "scam" because Republican input was invited, they refused, and ever since they've been throwing temper tantrums and trying to undermine the law, just as the Vox article says.
     
  10. Huntn macrumors G5

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    It strikes me that one side (Democrats) trying to find the path to affordable health care and the other side (GOP) is dead set against it, PERIOD. Instead of improving the ACA and actually getting some credit for it, for partisan reasons the GOP instead has chosen to push for the **** you, status quo, while making the nonsensical argument to a significant segment of US citizens they were better off with the status quo of nada.

    And now that they find themselves in the spotlight in control of the White House and Congress, with the sudden realization that if not the ACA, the idea of the ACA is very popular and now they look like deer in the headlights, walking their tightrope, of misinformation between killing the ACA, and pretending they want a affordable healthcare for all. The icing on the cake, they are lieing their assets off trying to fool their suckers, until the suckers get fed up with their BS.
     
  11. nia820 macrumors 68000

    nia820

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    #12
    Republicans could have fix the problems with ACA and made it better. But instead they want to nix the whole thing because they want their party's name on the bill.
     
  12. MadeTheSwitch macrumors 6502a

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    #13
    But we had a market based system prior to the ACA that cost more than what the rest of the world pays. So the problem isn't the plans, it's the cost of services. And no one, on either side of the aisle, is addressing that in the health care legislation that they have proposed. Not Obama, not the Democrats, not Trump, not the Republicans...no one has gotten it right. Which is why we are where we are.
     
  13. Thomas Veil macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

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    It's pretty dumbfounding how tone deaf they are to what the public wants. Bush was like that when he was trying to privatize Social Security. Remember him flying around the country trying to sell the idea? The more he talked about it, the less people liked it.

    But at least he finally got the message. I'm not sure the Republican health plan is going to end up that way. Despite the fact that the ACA is what people want, they're going to ram this twisted version of it down our throats. I'm not looking forward to it, since my wife will be on this plan starting next year.

    If we can afford it.

    A while back, someone -- maybe it was Vox, I don't know -- had this huge, long article about why health care costs are so high. The takeaway I remember most is that US hospitals overcharge so wildly because they're all in competition to build the biggest cancer center, or the fanciest MRI facility, or whatever. Much of that you pay for that $6.00 aspirin pill goes into concrete, glass and hardware.

    I've been to The Cleveland Clinic. The buildings just keep getting bigger and more pretentious, they have fancy-shmancy cafeterias (where they'll also be happy to sell you clothes, magazines and whatever), there's valet parking everywhere...it's a festival of medical ostentatiousness. So I believe it.
     
  14. Huntn macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    Actually, I think they thought they could just kill the ACA and somehow slide away from the topic of affordable health care. Now they are tying to use slight of hand to convince you that their program is a step up and not several steps down. Can you imagine? ... I can. :oops:
     
  15. MadeTheSwitch macrumors 6502a

    MadeTheSwitch

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    I can believe it too. My provider has a big new elaborate hospital with a piano in the lobby. It looks more like an upscale department store than anything else.
     
  16. bopajuice macrumors 6502a

    bopajuice

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    #17
    First couple of years I paid a reasonable price for a no deductible plan with no subsidies. I was covered with a preexisting condition and my son was on his moms plan until he was 26. It worked great for me.

    Constantly talking in absolutes like you do makes you sound... well... idiotic.

    Republicans did absolutely nothing to help make it successful. They claimed it was a failure and touted a better plan. Their better plan is going to take insurance away from millions. It could have been so much more if partisanship weren't such a big part of politics.

    If you want to complain about Obama forcing his plan through, look at what is happening now. Same thing, different party. Bicker all you want, we all lose.
     
  17. Thomas Veil macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

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    Yes, I've seen that too.

    BTW, I found the article. It's actually from Time. This is the part relative to what I mentioned:

    The entire article (in PDF form at this university site) is lengthy but a fascinating read. Here's another sample:

    It's insane.

    But keep believing everything wrong with health insurance is the ACA's fault, Republicans. :rolleyes:
     
  18. Zwopple macrumors regular

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    #19
    Hospitals in the USA have huge admin overheads too to deal with insurance companies. The entire system is so complex it's no wonder that some hospitals have more admin workers than clinicians and nurses.

    Unfortunately it doesn't matter ACA or AHCA neither is really going to stop or put a halt to the rapidly out of control escalation of health care in the USA -- as long as it's a for profit system the citizens are screwed.

    The turning point will be once most employers can no longer afford coverage for their employees via group plans. A lot of people seem to miss this but your Salary in the USA takes into calculation how much your health care coverage costs. Some companies charge employees a small monthly co-pay others quite large but don't be fooled your employer is paying a huge chunk of your insurance premiums that you never see or know about.

    A good read https://www.fool.com/investing/2017/05/07/warren-buffett-healthcare-is-the-real-problem-for.aspx
     
  19. ibookg409 Suspended

    ibookg409

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    The ACACwas designed to fail and drive us towards single payer. Obama was caught on tape saying so years ago. Looks like the snake will get what he wanted.
    --- Post Merged, May 28, 2017 ---
    The ACACwas designed to fail and drive us towards single payer. Obama was caught on tape saying so years ago. Looks like the snake will get what he wanted.
     
  20. Zwopple macrumors regular

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    If any good plan can reduce the % of GDP the USA spends on healthcare over all areas of the country (private, federal, state etc…) it's probably a good idea, Healthcare at it's current trajectory (and even before the ACA) is set to go to 20% of GDP by 2028 and continue rising past that. The issue is nobody wants to touch Medicare which as more and more boomers hit 67 will start to take advantage of.

    Medicaid is a big expenditure but it's not going to be the primary growth of expense that is going to cause the house of cards to collapse.
     
  21. ibookg409 Suspended

    ibookg409

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    #22
    There are a ton of ways to cut costs. Stop giving care to illegals. Billions saved right there. Put an end to frivolous medical lawsuits. Billions saved.
     
  22. Zwopple macrumors regular

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    #23
    I think you missed my point, Medicare is the elephant in the room, everything is peanuts in comparison.

    Illegals likely are only using the ER for true emergencies (heart attacks etc…), the best data I could find was from 2013 (http://www.fairus.org/publications/...llegal-immigration-on-united-states-taxpayers) where it cost around $6bn annually due to illegals. $6bn/year is peanuts -- don't get me wrong all the little bits add up but it's not the problem of insolvency.

    Someone has to force the hand of the profit engine to reduce costs and I think it's a massive oversimplification to say its just one or two things, healthcare unlike other free markets has an endless supply of customers (people will die without it, so they will find any way possible to pay for it regardless of the price).
     
  23. ibookg409 Suspended

    ibookg409

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    #24
    So cut it. Cut Medicare
     
  24. Zwopple macrumors regular

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    #25
    That would be one way, but neither party is going to commit suicide by cutting health care entitlements to those that vote the most!
     

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