The Chaos in France

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by aaronvan, Jan 9, 2015.

  1. aaronvan Suspended

    aaronvan

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    #1
    Well, events seem to be spiraling out of control in France. Prepare for Marine Le Pen's National Front to gain many more seats in the next election.

    So much for Liberté, Égalité, and Fraternité.

    If there is another major terrorist attack in the United States, we too can kiss our few remaining civil liberties goodbye. Hello, police state.
     
  2. Meister Suspended

    Meister

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  3. aaronvan thread starter Suspended

    aaronvan

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    #3
    A French journalist used that word on PBS this morning. I'll take her word for it.
     
  4. Meister Suspended

    Meister

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    #4
    Must be a translation error.

    The two suspects from the killing spree yesterday took a few hostages and are surounded by police.
    Nothing really chaotic about it.
     
  5. aaronvan thread starter Suspended

    aaronvan

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    #5
    You may find it hard to believe but some French people speak very good English.
     
  6. Meister Suspended

    Meister

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    #6
    I read the news today and couldn't see anything unusual.
    What happened? :confused:
     
  7. vrDrew macrumors 65816

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    #7
    I think it is a mistake to conflate events surrounding the French police' attempts to isolate and capture a couple of terrorism suspects with anything likely to happen in the United States. And just as mistaken to make predictions about the outcome of elections still many months away.

    The reality is that it took authorities here in the US a couple of days to capture and kill the perpetrators of the Boston Marathon attack. And yet I don't recall anyone describing that situation as "chaos in Boston" or anything similar.

    France as a nation has for a long time had a complicated relationship with Islam and citizens and residents who were Muslims. Napoleon Bonaparte himself converted to Islam (taking the name Ali Bonaparte); and for almost a century France administered predominantly Muslim parts of North Africa not just Colonies, but - in the case of Algeria - actual parts of Metropolitan France itself.

    Lastly, lacking the well-established Constitutional traditions that guarantee freedom of expression and religion, French lawmakers have attempted to restrict both the wearing of religious garments (the Hijab) as well as publications that attack or vilify religious or ethnic minorities. Resulting in an essentially tense situation whereby Muslims feel marginalized in some sectors of French society; and non-Muslims feel constrained in their ability to discuss the issue. Add in the pressures of long-term unemployment and joblessness associated with the 2008 financial crisis and the ruinous "austerity" budgets of the various European governments - and you have the perfect recipe for sporadic outbreaks of violence such as we are currently seeing.

    France isn't falling into neo-Nazi chaos, nor is it headed towards a Sharia-law Caliphate. And the US is not headed towards a Police-state. Not if I have anything to say about it.
     
  8. decafjava macrumors 68000

    decafjava

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    #8
    Sorry but source please! Sounds pretty implausible for a child of the rationalist French Revolution.
     
  9. balamw Moderator

    balamw

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    #9
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_campaign_in_Egypt_and_Syria

    I'd rephrase that from converted to Islam to portrayed himself as Muslim, but the rest appears to be historically accurate.

    B
     
  10. Gutwrench macrumors 65816

    Gutwrench

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    #10
    ...oh boy
    Four thousand holes in 6 Rue Nicolas-Appert
    And though the holes were rather small
    They had to count them all
     
  11. Meister Suspended

    Meister

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    #11
    What brings the honour of a poem? :)
     
  12. balamw Moderator

    balamw

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    #12
    Context:



    B
     
  13. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    #13
    It's a pretty low bar if this qualifies as chaos.

    It's a murderous, heinous act of terror ... no minimizing that.

    But chaos? I don't think so.
     
  14. Jesla macrumors 6502

    Jesla

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    #14
    Aren't guns illegal over there....They are saying 6 shot dead. Just sad.
     
  15. Meister Suspended

    Meister

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    #15
    I agree.
    Some people just want to see the world burn and the will always find reasons.
    Nothing new under the sun.

    ----------

    I how do I deserve the pleasure of reading derivated beatles quotes?
     
  16. Jesla macrumors 6502

    Jesla

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    #16
    Now they are saying everyone survived but not the 3 terrorist......
     
  17. Huntn, Jan 9, 2015
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2015

    Huntn macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #17
    In the States, I watch primarily CNN and MSNBC, and when events like this happen, they drone on about it all frick'n day long to a point where the easily enfluenced might think there is chaos. Oh, and they also tend to exaggerate, like a media person describing France or Paris as in a state of chaos. The biggest terror attack in the States, that shut down the entire air traffic control system and caused two sky scrapers to collapse, now that could rightfully be described as chaos in down town NYC. But so far this does not appear to reach that description for Paris. I think it's appropriate to distinguish between chaos and mobilization, where the former describes a situation totally out of control and hectic.
     
  18. Jesla macrumors 6502

    Jesla

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    #18
    Latest update 4 hostages are in fact dead......

    FRANCE24.com
     
  19. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #19
    Let's hope you're wrong.
     
  20. Jesla macrumors 6502

    Jesla

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    #20
    Let's hope so.....

    ....on the TV screen it says "At Least Four Hostages Killed at Kosher Market Siege."
     
  21. Jesla, Jan 9, 2015
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2015

    Jesla macrumors 6502

    Jesla

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    #21
    NOW they are saying the Hostages were freed...


    edit

    ....3 Hostages dead.
     
  22. Huntn macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #22
    Should the French be alarmed that there are 6 million French Muslims living in France? My answer is alarmed enough to start addressing this cultural issue between those of European descent versus those relative new comers although my impression is that millions were born and have lived in France their entire lives.
     
  23. Jesla macrumors 6502

    Jesla

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    #23
    If gun sales in France spike I guess you'll have you answer.....
     
  24. vrDrew macrumors 65816

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    #24
    That is extremely unlikely.

    France has some of the most stringent gun-control laws in Europe. Any conviction for a violent or threatening action can preclude legal gun ownership; and any firearm without a legitimate sporting or recreational purpose is expressly forbidden to be imported into the country.

    That said, its also worth noting that the offices of Charlie Hebdo were in fact protected by an armed security guard from France's Interior Ministry, assigned to protect the editor of the paper, who had received prior death threats. An elite professional who was, in fact, caught by surprise and killed by determined attackers.

    I don't know why it is that "gun enthusiasts" here in the United States continue to labor under the misapprehension that the typical housewife; soccer-dad; or mall rat is somehow going to be transformed into an expert CQB warrior by simply carrying a concealed handgun - let alone how those same people are going to effectively engage armed attackers.
     
  25. Huntn macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #25
    ...but it makes them feel better, like they have a chance that they would not have if unarmed. When it comes to home invasion/robbery, this is a plausible reason. But don't mistake this for the an argument in the defense of gun zealotry. ;)
     

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