The Coffee Party kick-off

Thomas Veil

macrumors 68020
Original poster
Feb 14, 2004
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OBJECTIVE reality
So. I know several people said they were joining the Coffee Party movement. Did anybody go to the kick-off this morning?

I did. Of the eight people signed up, six showed, which was a nice-sized group for a discussion. It was in a little west side urban diner, and the hosts were a Methodist minister and his wife. To my great surprise, even though I drove 20 miles to this meet-up, four of the people there either used to or presently live in my 'burb.

Also -- perhaps I shouldn't have been surprised -- all of us were over 40. I don't know if this was the norm across the country, but I guess young, idealistic people are feeling pretty disenfranchised right now.

The makeup? Nobody was asked their party affiliation or leanings, but four of us seemed to tilt middle/left, I consider myself fully left, and one woman was more of a libertarian.

We were asked to discuss topics the Coffee Party group should focus on, and the usual suspects came up: the lack of civility in political discourse, corporate control over our government (the recent Supreme Court ruling re: campaign financing was slammed by everybody there), and I volunteered the irresponsibility of the media (whether it's the focus on trivial stuff like CNN or propaganda like Fox, another subject of universal derision). Someone also mentioned the powerlessness of third party candidates to be heard.

We ended up coming up with some interesting ideas:

  • Return to the old FCC concept of considering spectrum space akin to a natural resource that needs to be used in the public interest. Give the FCC its teeth back, i.e., the power to pull the license of any news outfit that doesn't operate in a responsible manner, or to at least enforce equal time provisions.
  • In primary elections, guarantee a ballot position for third-party candidates -- sort of a wild card spot. Socialists, libertarians, Greens and other candidates could run for that spot. Whichever party's candidate gets the most votes advances to the general election. So in any given general election, you'd have the Democrats, the Republicans, and whichever third party candidate won in the primary. Three choices on the ballot, not two, guaranteeing the third candidate the right to be in debates, better media coverage, etc.
  • Pushing to challenge the idea that a corporation = a person. As one member pointed out today, not everybody gets the same rights. Children don't have the same rights as adults, for example.
  • A (for lack of a better term) "shadow" Congress or convention of Coffee Party delegates, randomly picked, two from each state, to hold meetings several times a year to discuss, thrash out and decide the same issues Congress is working on. They'd have absolutely no power of course, but the group I was with felt that the offsetting advantage would be that it would be made up of citizen representatives of all kinds (not just lawyers and other professional politicians) showing up Congress by reaching the decisions that the real Congress can't. These delegates would change annually, assuring a good mix of public opinion.
Some of those ideas are fairly outside the box, but perhaps it's time to start thinking that way.



Looks like the Grumpy Old Men are already trying to smear the movement too:

So what does the Tea Party movement think of this new sensation?

"This Coffee Party looks like a weak attempt at satire or a manufactured response to a legitimate widespread grass-roots movement," says Brendan Steinhauser, director of federal and state campaigns for FreedomWorks, a nonprofit conservative organization that helps train volunteer activists and has provided much of the organizational heft behind the Tea Party movement.

"It's driven from the top down, and it's not a grass-roots movement driven from the bottom up," Jim Hoft of the St. Louis Tea Party said.
The Tea Party is grass roots and the Coffee Party isn't, huh?. Hilarious. :p
 

NT1440

macrumors G5
May 18, 2008
12,141
13,999
Yeah, I went and dropped acid with my friends this morning too.
Don't you have this thing about posting with significance? Oh right, that only applies to OTHER people.

Anyway, I like the idea of this so called Coffee Party, but I wish it was more of an ideal rather than a reactionary group to the Tea Party.
 

184550

Guest
May 8, 2008
1,978
2
Nah, I just don't care about <insert drink name> Party.

In the upcoming elections these parties will just steal votes from mainstream political parties which have a much better chance at implementing meaningful changes to the current system.
 

IntheNet

macrumors regular
Oct 6, 2009
190
0
The Tea Party is grass roots and the Coffee Party isn't, huh?. Hilarious. :p
You are aware that the “Coffee Party” founder is an Obama campaign operative and the Coffee dunkers exist only to undermine the legitimate grassroots Tea Party movement!

“Coffee Party” Founder Is Obama Campaign Operative
Steve Watson
Prisonplanet.com
Wednesday, March 3rd, 2010
http://www.infowars.com/coffee-party-founder-is-obama-campaign-operative/
Billed as an alternative grassroots movement to the Tea Party, which has been for the most part absorbed by mainline Republicans and Neoconservatives, the “Coffee Party” promised to wake up politically minded Americans and offered a different avenue for the freedom movement. However, the so called founder of the Coffee Party has been quickly exposed as an Obama campaign operative, whose caffeine concept was purely designed to undermine and co-opt the Tea Party ideology.
 

Ugg

macrumors 68000
Apr 7, 2003
1,985
15
Penryn
I like the FCC idea.

I also like the 3 party idea. There are times I've voted for the least objectionable candidate and hated myself for it. Having a third option may restore some of my self esteem!

Corporate personhood has always been a bad idea. It's time to change that permanently.

I'd like to say that I attended my local party but I didn't.
 

zap2

macrumors 604
Mar 8, 2005
7,242
1
Washington D.C
You are aware that the “Coffee Party” founder is an Obama campaign operative and the Coffee dunkers exist only to undermine the legitimate grassroots Tea Party movement!

“Coffee Party” Founder Is Obama Campaign Operative
Steve Watson
Prisonplanet.com
Wednesday, March 3rd, 2010
http://www.infowars.com/coffee-party-founder-is-obama-campaign-operative/
Billed as an alternative grassroots movement to the Tea Party, which has been for the most part absorbed by mainline Republicans and Neoconservatives, the “Coffee Party” promised to wake up politically minded Americans and offered a different avenue for the freedom movement.
However, the so called founder of the Coffee Party has been quickly exposed as an Obama campaign operative, whose caffeine concept was purely designed to undermine and co-opt the Tea Party ideology.

Whats the point?

She supported Obama in the election, that doesn't mean

1) Her efforts now are out to undermine the Tea Party(she clear says there is likely common ground between the two)

2)That she always supports Obama from election day until forever.

It pretty clear the Tea Party is out to undermine this movement, as they see it as threat to their own. The Coffee Party seems to be an organization interested in see the government work for its people, which doesn't really say much about where their political views will fall.

And you've criticized people who questioned the tea party without going to one of their meetings(in other threads), so I'm sure you've attended a Coffee Party meeting so you're able to question the movement, right?


(Also for someone who has attacked the creditability sources in the past, this site you linked isn't very mainstream)
 

rdowns

macrumors Penryn
Jul 11, 2003
27,345
12,409
And you've criticized people who questioned the tea party without going to one of their meetings(in other threads), so I'm sure you've attended a Coffee Party meeting so you're able to question the movement, right?
QFT.


(Also for someone who has attacked the creditability sources in the past, this site you linked isn't very mainstream)

Main stream? ***** creek laughs at that source.
 

IntheNet

macrumors regular
Oct 6, 2009
190
0
Whats the point?
From what I can see, and what others attest to, is that this "Coffee Party" is out simply to undermine the legitimate Tea Party and be a distraction to it. That I why I posted the prior link showing the Coffee Party's founder's allegiance to Obama as an operative. If you don't believe that check around... her far left progressive background is pretty well documented; she earlier did a film advocacy documentary serving the open borders initiative in NOVA.

If the "Coffee Party" has legitimate claims against administration we within Tea Party would welcome it. But it seems to me the Coffee Party is certainly not grassroots! I would bet it gets its guidance from the White House Political team but we can't yet prove that...
 

NT1440

macrumors G5
May 18, 2008
12,141
13,999
If the "Coffee Party" has legitimate claims against administration we within Tea Party would welcome it. But it seems to me the Coffee Party is certainly not grassroots! I would bet it gets its guidance from the White House Political team but we can't yet prove that...
Here's the thing, this party isn't for or against any certain administration, they just want politics to start being honest.
 

RazHyena

macrumors 6502a
Jul 30, 2009
538
0
USA
Here's the thing, this party isn't for or against any certain administration, they just want politics to start being honest.
Sure they do. Just like the Tea Party. :rolleyes:

Now instead of the Left and Right, we have the "grassroots" Left and Right.

Oh my, the progress this country is making. :mad:
 

zap2

macrumors 604
Mar 8, 2005
7,242
1
Washington D.C
From what I can see,
According to your methods, when people criticized the Tea Party, you said they haven't seen it first hand, so they can't comment....did you attend any Coffee Party meetings?

and what others attest to, is that this "Coffee Party" is out simply to undermine the legitimate Tea Party and be a distraction to it.
Why? They seem to me to have meetings address issues their members find important. What have they done as an organization to undermine the Tea Party? (perhaps you're saying their goals disagree, which is fine if you can prove it, but simply disagreeing with you wouldn't make it illegitimate)

That I why I posted the prior link showing the Coffee Party's founder's allegiance to Obama as an operative. .
You didn't post a link showing that. You posted a link showing that the Coffee Party's Founder was an Obama supporter. In no way does that de legitimize the movement. Nor does it suggest she is an "operative". It just shows she supported Obama in 2008.

If you don't believe that check around... her far left progressive background is pretty well documented; she earlier did a film advocacy documentary serving the open borders initiative in NOVA. .
I shouldn't have to "search around'' to support claims you're making. More importantly, that doesn't in anyway take away from this movement, that just shows(if true) she has political ideas herself. Not surprising.

If the "Coffee Party" has leitimate claims against administration we within Tea Party would welcome it.
Thats a bit self centered...perhaps people want to start their own movement to get things done. Perhaps they think the Tea Party isn't focused on what they wanted to focus on.

But it seems to me the Coffee Party is certainly not grassroots!
You claimed that a lot, but nothing you've said/proved a link to would prove that.

I would bet it gets its guidance from the White House Political team but we can't yet prove that...
Um...WHAT?!?! This is out of no-where. Claims like this make it clear you aren't looking for the truth, but that you're out to discredit this movement, with or without facts on your side.

For me, members like IntheNet make the Coffee Party 100% more attractive. Forcing change from within for the Tea Party would be a foolish move. Despite what IntheNet seems to be suggesting, grass roots movements can create more then suggest the Tea Party.
 

IntheNet

macrumors regular
Oct 6, 2009
190
0
You didn't post a link showing that. You posted a link showing that the Coffee Party's Founder was an Obama supporter. In no way does that de legitimize the movement. Nor does it suggest she is an "operative". It just shows she supported Obama in 2008.
From the link I posted (emphasis mine):

"Park campaigned for Obama in 2008 and was one of the organizers and operators of the influential United for Obama video channel at YouTube. “I found that people have little understanding of the change that Senator Barack Obama is advocating. I thought from my experience in using videos for civil movements that videos would be the best way to promote the need for change and for Obama. That’s why I decided to work for the Obama campaign,” Annabel Park said. She made over twenty promotional videos for the Obama campaign that drew tens of thousands of views."

That is the very definition of "operative"...
 

Macky-Mac

macrumors 68030
May 18, 2004
2,589
1,142
From the link I posted:

"Park campaigned for Obama in 2008 and was one of the organizers and operators of the influential United for Obama video channel at YouTube. “I found that people have little understanding of the change that Senator Barack Obama is advocating. I thought from my experience in using videos for civil movements that videos would be the best way to promote the need for change and for Obama. That’s why I decided to work for the Obama campaign,” Annabel Park said. She made over twenty promotional videos for the Obama campaign that drew tens of thousands of views."

That is the very definition of "operative"...
so all this means sara palin supporters can't be part of the tea party movement since they would be "Palin operatives" and as a result not really "grass roots"???
 

Thomas Veil

macrumors 68020
Original poster
Feb 14, 2004
2,435
5,528
OBJECTIVE reality
I would bet it gets its guidance from the White House Political team but we can't yet prove that...
I'm sure the Fox "News" creative team has placed an extremely large order for whole cloth. Just waiting to hear what they cut out of it.

That is the very definition of operative"...
No, this is the very definition of operative:

operative |ˈäp(ə)ritiv; ˈäpəˌrātiv|
adjective
1 functioning; having effect : the transmitter is operative | the mining ban would remain operative.
• [ attrib. ] (of a word) having the most relevance or significance in a phrase or sentence : a young man, and the operative word is young, should go into the armed services at around seventeen.
2 [ attrib. ] of or relating to surgery : they had wounds needing operative treatment.
noun
a worker, esp. a skilled one in a manufacturing industry.
• a private detective or secret agent.
A private or secret agent...as a campaign volunteer??
 

zap2

macrumors 604
Mar 8, 2005
7,242
1
Washington D.C
From the link I posted (emphasis mine):

"Park campaigned for Obama in 2008 and was one of the organizers and operators of the influential United for Obama video channel at YouTube. “I found that people have little understanding of the change that Senator Barack Obama is advocating. I thought from my experience in using videos for civil movements that videos would be the best way to promote the need for change and for Obama. That’s why I decided to work for the Obama campaign,” Annabel Park said. She made over twenty promotional videos for the Obama campaign that drew tens of thousands of views."

That is the very definition of "operative"...
Way to respond to ONE part of my fairly long response to you
(And two other posters have responded to this, doing a nice job in refuting your silliness)
 

theheadguy

macrumors 65816
Apr 26, 2005
1,119
1,314
california
Yeah, I went and dropped acid with my friends this morning too.
At one point I had some respect for you, but you are quickly succeeding in lowering yourself to a simpleminded troll. The good news of course is that if I read something of yours that has sound logic, I'll be pleasantly surprised.
 

63dot

macrumors 603
Jun 12, 2006
5,271
339
norcal
You are aware that the “Coffee Party” founder is an Obama campaign operative and the Coffee dunkers exist only to undermine the legitimate grassroots Tea Party movement!
That's OK by me. Some conservative started the tea party movement, so why not a liberal starting a coffee party movement?

Democracy goes both ways, and it's what makes us American.
 

freeny

macrumors 68020
Sep 27, 2005
2,065
5
Location: Location:
You are aware that the “Coffee Party” founder is an Obama campaign operative and the Coffee dunkers exist only to undermine the legitimate grassroots Tea Party movement
that makes no logical sense at all.

Why would the whitehouse create a "fake" party that resonates better with voters when instead they could just start making decisions that resonates better with voters?