the contagion of ignorance

Sydde

macrumors 68020
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Aug 17, 2009
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Not too many stories get more breath-takingly deplorable than this:
[url=http://space.io9.com/harsh-reality-break-234-girls-kidnapped-from-physics-t-1568087455/+rtgonzalez]io9: [I]234 School Girls Abducted During Physics Final in Nigeria[/I][/url] said:
The students were loaded into a truck at gunpoint, and taken into the forest. It is assumed that the kidnappers were Boko Haram, an extremist group whose name means, "Western education is sinful." The idea of allowing girls to get an education, and, worse, yet, a science education, is everything they hate. They have a local history of doing crazy, horrible things, like assassinating clerics who criticize their extremism, bombing schools, murdering students, and kidnapping girls to use as sex slaves. At the time of the kidnapping, every other school in the area was shut down due to security concerns, but this school was kept open specifically to take final exams, with over 100 taking a physics test. Their parents say that if they'd done well on their exams, many of the women were hoping to pursue higher education.
Not sure how we go about combating the kind of troglodyte mindset that leads to vile behavior like this. The US does not seem to be at risk, yet we do have quite a few wackos with guns floating around, and a quite a few religious wackos out there, hopefully the cross-over between those groups will remain small.

Note: most people with guns are not wackos and most religious people are pretty OK.
 

Technarchy

macrumors 604
May 21, 2012
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Worth noting the Boko Haram are an Islamic sect.

Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boko_Haram

Founded by Mohammed Yusuf in 2002, the organisation seeks to establish a "pure" Islamic state ruled by sharia law, putting a stop to what it deems "Westernization". The group is known for attacking Christians and government targets, bombing churches, attacking schools and police stations, kidnapping western tourists, but has also assassinated members of the Islamic establishment. Violence linked to the Boko Haram insurgency has resulted in an estimated 10,000 deaths between 2002 and 2013.
 

jkcerda

macrumors 6502a
Jun 10, 2013
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I guess? Fundamentalists of any stripe are a problem in lawless areas.
correct

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10/18/african-children-denounce_n_324943.html
African Children Denounced As "Witches" By Christian Pastors

EKET, Nigeria — The nine-year-old boy lay on a bloodstained hospital sheet crawling with ants, staring blindly at the wall.

His family pastor had accused him of being a witch, and his father then tried to force acid down his throat as an exorcism. It spilled as he struggled, burning away his face and eyes. The emaciated boy barely had strength left to whisper the name of the church that had denounced him – Mount Zion Lighthouse.

A month later, he died.
 

Huntn

macrumors demi-god
May 5, 2008
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Not justification, but it may help to point out that the perpetrators had been experiencing similar "massacres" for years in the Midwest before this. And they headed west to escape such persecution.

They were naturally weary of people coming through their territory.
We are all susceptible to failure. The statement was not meant to single out Mormons. Historically those of us fervent in the righteousness of our faith in combination with intolerance and toss in some persecution, can become just as susceptible to barbarity as infidels and heathens.
 

Ugg

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Apr 7, 2003
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Not justification, but it may help to point out that the perpetrators had been experiencing similar "massacres" for years in the Midwest before this. And they headed west to escape such persecution.

They were naturally weary of people coming through their territory.
"Their" territory? American property became the property of the Mormons when exactly? It would seem as though that you are a Clive Bundy supporter. Rewrite history to support your own beliefs. That's sad.
 

SLC Flyfishing

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"Their" territory? American property became the property of the Mormons when exactly? It would seem as though that you are a Clive Bundy supporter. Rewrite history to support your own beliefs. That's sad.
Yes, "their territory" in the sense that they were the ones living there, the ones that settled it when they were forced out of Missouri and Illinois. And it was not "American Property" when they settled it; it was technically Mexican property.

Additionally, at the time of the massacre, the federal government had dispatched an army to remove Brigham Young from power and install a different governor. It's understandable why the settlers may have been a bit jumpy seeing as how they were facing the potential of yet another round of persecution and violence, things which they fled their homes in the Midwest to avoid.
 
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Ugg

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Yes, "their territory" in the sense that they were the ones living there, the ones that settled it when they were forced out of Missouri and Illinois. And it was not "American Property" when they settled it; it was technically Mexican property.
"Forced out"? Polygamy was not legal. They chose to pursue it even though they knew they were committing a crime. Clive Bundy all over again.

Only some of present day Utah was Mexican when the Mormon criminals settled it and even then only for two years. From 1850 until Utah statehood, Mormons were criminals. There's simply no way around it.

The Louisiana Purchase was technically Spanish, but was purchased from France. What's your point?
 

SLC Flyfishing

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"Forced out"? Polygamy was not legal. They chose to pursue it even though they knew they were committing a crime. Clive Bundy all over again.

Only some of present day Utah was Mexican when the Mormon criminals settled it and even then only for two years. From 1850 until Utah statehood, Mormons were criminals. There's simply no way around it.

The Louisiana Purchase was technically Spanish, but was purchased from France. What's your point?
Is it your stance then, that their being forced out and having a state sanctioned "extermination order" against them was justified because their marriage practices were illegal?

I think you're treading a fine line there Ugg.
 

mactastic

macrumors 68040
Apr 24, 2003
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Not too many stories get more breath-takingly deplorable than this:


Not sure how we go about combating the kind of troglodyte mindset that leads to vile behavior like this. The US does not seem to be at risk, yet we do have quite a few wackos with guns floating around, and a quite a few religious wackos out there, hopefully the cross-over between those groups will remain small.

Note: most people with guns are not wackos and most religious people are pretty OK.
This is so messed up. A family friend works for a sex-trade victim aid organization, and the stories are just heartbreaking.
 

Ugg

macrumors 68000
Apr 7, 2003
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Is it your stance then, that their being forced out and having a state sanctioned "extermination order" against them was justified because their marriage practices were illegal?

I think you're treading a fine line there Ugg.
Mormon War of 1838

Shortly after organizing the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints in 1830, Joseph Smith Jr. revealed that the Second Coming of Christ was near, that the City of Zion would be near the town of Independence in Jackson County, Missouri, and that his followers were destined to inherit the land held by the current settlers.
If ye are faithful, ye shall assemble yourselves together to rejoice upon the land of Missouri, which is the land of your inheritance, which is now the land of your enemies.[6]
Well that's certainly a sign of peacefulness, isn't it!
 
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Huntn

macrumors demi-god
May 5, 2008
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Is it your stance then, that their being forced out and having a state sanctioned "extermination order" against them was justified because their marriage practices were illegal?

I think you're treading a fine line there Ugg.
Mormon War of 1838
Shortly after organizing the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints in 1830, Joseph Smith Jr. revealed that the Second Coming of Christ was near, that the City of Zion would be near the town of Independence in Jackson County, Missouri, and that his followers were destined to inherit the land held by the current settlers.
If ye are faithful, ye shall assemble yourselves together to rejoice upon the land of Missouri, which is the land of your inheritance, which is now the land of your enemies.[6]
Well that's certainly a sign of peacefulness, isn't it!
I believe religion all too often is controlled by hucksters who manufacture prophecies to controllers the sheep, where the sheep allow themselves to sheared. For the Mormons, I'd really like to see those golden tablets. I'm not an expert on Mormonism, and they may be mainstreaming now, but the early years really sounds like a cult to me.
 

iMacFarlane

macrumors 65816
Apr 5, 2012
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Interesting testimony of the Mormon history.
Shortly after organizing the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints in 1830, Joseph Smith Jr. revealed that the Second Coming of Christ was near.
Here's another:
Shortly after organizing the Church of Jesus Christ of Present Day Saints in 30, Jesus Christ revealed that the Second Coming of himself was near.
Back to the topic at hand, I really don't see any future that works out for humanity that doesn't involve the abandonment of religion. People need to get out of their heads, and deal in facts. Helping others and striving for a better future should be the driving force behind everything we do. If not, maybe a few million years from now, the "next" species that subdues nature to achieve civilization may study our fossils and argue whether our remains are actually millions of years old or just put there by the devil to confuse them and test their faith.
 

Ugg

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That smells like a dodge. Answer the question Ugg.
Chicken or egg? Joseph Smith is the one who declared that entirely innocent and totally unknown people were the enemies of the Mormons.

Violence begets violence. The early Mormons were violent and unlawful. Frontier justice is still practiced by those on the extreme right. Guilty until proven innocent.

Why should someone who invented a religion be allowed to commit violent acts? Religion can never be used as an excuse for violence, if it is then its followers cease to be religious.

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I believe religion all too often is controlled by hucksters who manufacture prophecies to controllers the sheep, where the sheep allow themselves to sheared. For the Mormons, I'd really like to see those golden tablets. I'm not an expert on Mormonism, and they may be mainstreaming now, but the early years really sounds like a cult to me.
It was. Much closer to L. Ron Hubbard than other religions that were founded in the 1800s. J smith's goal was power and wealth. His appeal was a truly "American" religion and what greater appeal to the masses than to be one of the lost tribes of israel.
 

SLC Flyfishing

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Chicken or egg? Joseph Smith is the one who declared that entirely innocent and totally unknown people were the enemies of the Mormons.

Violence begets violence. The early Mormons were violent and unlawful. Frontier justice is still practiced by those on the extreme right. Guilty until proven innocent.

Why should someone who invented a religion be allowed to commit violent acts? Religion can never be used as an excuse for violence...
Another dodge.

You implied that the Mormons deserved to lose their homes and have an extermination order against them because if their marriage practices; I want to know if you really believe that.
 

Ugg

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Apr 7, 2003
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Another dodge.

You implied that the Mormons deserved to lose their homes and have an extermination order against them because if their marriage practices; I want to know if you really believe that.
Illegal acts are not defensible. Period.