The Curious Decline and Uncertain Future of the Democratic Party

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by aaronvan, Jan 18, 2017.

  1. aaronvan Suspended

    aaronvan

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    #1
    Excellent essay on the horrible state of the Democratic Party.

    http://www.nbcnews.com/specials/democrats-left-in-the-lurch
     
  2. Huntn macrumors P6

    Huntn

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    #2
    No doubt a rough patch, but it's not over till it's over. And outsider stormed into the GOP and took over propelled by traditionally a Democrat demographic. Then you have Trump. Let's see what calamities/scandals happen near term, what anti-people programs the GOP rams through (they can't help themselves), what international criseses pop up, how much money they waste on a stupid wall, (today Pense was talking about executive orders to fund the wall- really now?) which could be better spent on a thousand other things, and then see what happens at the mid terms, if Trump is not impeached before then.
     
  3. MacNut macrumors Core

    MacNut

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    #3
    Just 4 years ago we were talking about the demise of the GOP. The power will shift again in a few years.
     
  4. Populism, Jan 18, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2017

    Populism Suspended

    Populism

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    #4
    Either Democrats have singnificantly lost nationally and locally, or they haven't.

    Liberals/democrats/progressives will - despite the election results - dodge the doodoo out of actually answering that question.

    Democrats should - if they want to get back into local or national office - scream a little bit louder about the evils of cisgender bathrooms, and scream "bigot!" at those who criticize the ACA 25% premium increases.

    That's the money shot.

    I loathe Trump. He's an idiot (search up my Trump comments for proofz.)

    But liberals/democrats/progressives will ensure with surgical accuracy that he is a two-term president.
     
  5. MadeTheSwitch macrumors 6502a

    MadeTheSwitch

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    #5
    Really during this campaign I saw numerous posters (both right and left) predicting the demise of both parties in 2016.

    But neither thing is true. Here's a scenario for people to ponder:

    Donald fails to deliver on something, or the economy goes south, or even more are jobless through automation, etc., or some horrible terrorist act befalls one of our cities....boom....one term President and all of a sudden in the blink of an eye things look much different.

    Here's the deal....there are even some people who voted for him that are starting to become disillusioned already. Conversely we are seeing Democrats really getting active at the grass roots level already (think left wing tea party). Voter apathy for Republicans combined with energized Democrats could change things very quickly. Hold onto things is hard. Being the opposition party is much easier. Republicans have forgotten that. They are about to relearn that lesson and the pendulum will swing the other way yet again. It always does.
     
  6. juanm macrumors 65816

    juanm

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    #6
    I fixed that for you.

    The Dems will have to prove that they understood the message, and hopefully steer away from career politicians like Clinton. If they didn't understand it, they'll make a few cosmetic changes and try again (and lose again) in 2years/4 years. Too bad Sanders is too old to take the helm.
     
  7. jpietrzak8 macrumors 65816

    jpietrzak8

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    #7
    Come on, guys. The way that the United States government was designed, it inherently supports a two-party mechanism. There is little or no scope for fringe parties to accomplish anything of significance. To have a say in how the nation moves forward, you need to join a group outside of the government that can gain a majority of votes.

    So, the Democrats and Republicans, having long experience of how to get candidates elected, and long-established bases of support, end up being essentially immortal. Fringe groups who want any power at all are more or less forced to bow the knee to one of these two parties, and then find a way to make their voice known within that party.

    The pendulum will, inevitably, swing back and forth; as one party becomes more ideologically pure, the people it drives away will eventually move over to the other party, giving it power for a time.

    The only way a party can truly die is when both major parties become too ideologically puritanical. A "third" party only becomes viable if it can attract an overwhelming number of voters away from both major parties at the same time.

    With the unpopularity of the presidential race in this election, we may be nearing such a time again. But, we may not; the Democrats do seem to be doing the normal job of the party out of power, saying the things they need to say to make themselves more appealing to those who are unhappy with the party in power. And yeah, Trump is making it easy for many people to be incredibly unhappy with the party in power; there's a reason why politicians in this country practice "Political Correctness", and he's about to learn why.
     
  8. blackfox macrumors 65816

    blackfox

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    #8
    Funnily enough I was talking about this very issue earlier tonight. My thoughts (then and now) are that the Democratic Party needs to get it's **** together. The RNC has managed to cobble together some rather unrealistic and unpalatable nonsense and sell the hell out of it. That is an amazing achievement, considering public sentiment is generally to the left of any of their talking points. The Liberals have the high-ground - our ideas work and are palatable to the public, but they have awful PR and logistics. I think the Liberals (and/or the DNC) need to take a play out of the other sides playbook and go on the attack. Forcefully advocate the idea of social safety-nets, protections of our various humanities, good education, decent environment, near-guaranteed healthcare. These are things people want, if only they were argued effectively.
     
  9. unlinked macrumors 6502a

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    #9
    I tend to think people probably read too much into this election or at least the wrong things.
    After 2 terms of Obama people wanted change and Hillary couldn't offer change even if she wanted to and I'm not sure there is much sign she did. There are other micro long term things in play but that is the macro.
     
  10. Septembersrain Contributor

    Septembersrain

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    #10
    I think the pendulum will swing when people want change. We're never going to get a president that will make everyone happy. However, it seems people get really excited then later down the line all the promises get recanted or uncompleted. Then we want change again. Rinse, repeat.
     
  11. dotnet macrumors 65816

    dotnet

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    #11
    The Dems really need some introspection and reflection after years of Clintonism. Right now they're in denial and blaming everybody else for the election loss. If they keep that up Trump will win in a landslide in 4 years' time.
     
  12. Moyank24 macrumors 601

    Moyank24

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    #12
    I kind of think so too, and it will be interesting to look into the final numbers in comparison with 2012.

    On the surface, it looks like Republicans didn't gain votes (meaning Democrats didn't red), and democrats either chose a 3rd party nominee or just stayed home.

    Did the polls have an effect? Did people feel better about not voting/3rd party protest voting because they thought that Hillary was going to win? If the polls were showing Trump up, we may have seen different results.

    Definitely will be interesting to pick apart for the next 4 years.
     
  13. aaronvan thread starter Suspended

    aaronvan

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    #13
    I didn't vote for a single Republican; only Democrats, independents, or Libertarians. However, when Hillary lost I felt like, well, think "Walking On Sunshine" by Katrina and the Waves and you'll know how I felt. How many other voters felt the same way? Plenty, I'd bet. I have a friend who voted for Hillary and he was glad she lost. His political compass was really spinning. I suspect more than a few Bernie supporters didn't vote for her, believing that purging the DNC of Clintonism was the primary task.
     
  14. unlinked macrumors 6502a

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    #14
    The shift from the polls to the results as people made their final decisions favoured Trump but the main parties both went up and the 3rd party both went down.

    Final Results -- -- -- 48.2 46.1 3.3 1.1 Clinton +2.1
    RCP Average 11/2 - 11/7 -- -- 45.5 42.2 4.7 1.9 Clinton +3.3


    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/ep...rump_vs_clinton_vs_johnson_vs_stein-5952.html
     
  15. MadeTheSwitch macrumors 6502a

    MadeTheSwitch

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    #15
    Well that's just dumb and shortsighted for any non-Republican to do. Such actions have allowed the very people and very policies those people don't like, to take control and flourish. Not a real swift move.

    I get that people were unhappy with Democratic leadership, but "I'll show you" in this case involves shooting oneself in the foot if you don't like Republican policies.
     
  16. MacNut macrumors Core

    MacNut

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    #16
    This year the choices were a steaming pile of **** or flaming bag of ****. Either way you were going to have a bad smell when you voted. I never saw an upside to voting for either. The problem is what one would **** us over less. Who ever was president would have 50% of the country angry. There was no win for anyone in this election. We just have to hope there is something left to fight for in 4 years.
     
  17. MadeTheSwitch macrumors 6502a

    MadeTheSwitch

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    #17
    Sure there was. Forget the top of the pyramid for a minute. You can't possibly think that the policies each would set or all the cabinet members that would get appointed under, are exactly the same. This wasn't a flip a coin situation where all things are equal either way. While you might have hated both candidates, there were two different outcomes, not one.
     
  18. MacNut macrumors Core

    MacNut

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    #18
    Both parties need a reset. The democrats had theirs. The republicans will do it thanks to Trumps destruction. They both lost there way and the only way to get them on track is by voting.
     
  19. Herdfan macrumors 6502

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    #19
  20. BoxerGT2.5 macrumors 68000

    BoxerGT2.5

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    #20
    I agree with Bill Maher on this one. The democratic party has to get over themselves, identity politics, stop being this party of fake social outrage and just start talking and listening to EVERYONE. Stop pitting groups against each other, if your life sucks it sucks, doesn't matter what color your skin is or who's laying in your bed beside you.
     
  21. Huntn macrumors P6

    Huntn

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    #21
    I agree that grassroots is the path forward. Aren't I smart? ;)
     
  22. 5684697, Jan 19, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2017
  23. unlinked macrumors 6502a

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    #23
    "The results show Democrats’ unintentional self-gerrymandering is arguably a bigger handicap than the GOP’s intentional gerrymandering." This piece is kinda interesting.
     
  24. jpietrzak8 macrumors 65816

    jpietrzak8

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    #24
    Either they will do so, or another party will do so and the Democratic party will disappear. This is how America works; one party takes charge, makes the country unhappy, the unhappy people join together to push out the party they hate, they become the party in charge. Then they become the hated ones, and the cycle continues. Democrats are the ones hated today, and Trump is well on the road to making the Republican party hated asap.
     
  25. aaronvan thread starter Suspended

    aaronvan

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    #25

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