The Democratic Convention thread

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Thomas Veil, Aug 25, 2008.

  1. Thomas Veil macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

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    #1
    As the Democrats gather today, I don't know why I have this feeling of impending doom.

    I can see two things going wrong with the convention, and boy, I hope I'm wrong about both of them.

    One is that Clinton makes her speech in favor of Obama, and her coven of fans still remain unmoved. It would be ironic, because it would mean that many of them are wedded to the idea of a female candidate, any female candidate, rather than electing the one who is nominated.

    The bad thing, of course, is that if I'm right, Obama won't pick up any more of her supporters. I think that's largely true already. Reading comments from Clinton supporters, there seem to be those already resigned to supporting Obama, and the hard-core Clintonistas who want to "punish" the Democratic party for not selecting their gal.

    The other concern I have is about the post-convention "bounce". Saw Chris Matthews talking about this yesterday, and I don't know, I just have this really bad feeling that Obama is going to come out of this convention with little if any "bounce". Again, it's the impression I get that there's a hard-core bunch of people who just don't like him, for reasons they themselves don't understand, and these people will remain unconvinced.

    I can be a bit of a pessimist, so I hope I'm completely wrong in both these regards.
     
  2. dukebound85 macrumors P6

    dukebound85

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    #2
    im confused, why does it matter what clinton does once obama is nominated? i mean once obama is nominated, clinton isnt an option for the presidency correct?

    for the clinton supporters that would punish the democratic party, why? i mean the only real choices for this election will be mccain and obama right? and wont the clinton people vote for obama?

    i am just confused so any explanation would be nice
     
  3. és: macrumors 6502a

    és:

    #3
    That's something that drives me wild. Women voting for Hilda (my pet name for her) because she's a woman. Black men voting for Obama because he's a black man. War Lovin' ol' bastards voting for McCain because he's a... Well, you get the picture.

    People need to start voting for the best candidate because they are the best candidate. Voting for people because they have the same genitalia as you, the same skin pigmentation as you or the same false hip as you just makes mock of the process.

    In my opinion, anyway.
     
  4. Cleverboy macrumors 65816

    Cleverboy

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    #4
    I've said this before, and I'll say it again. Identity politics aren't going to go ANYWHERE. People vote for you, because they think you're "like them". Whether they can get past the OTHER traits, is up to each individual.

    People need to GET OVER the fact that people will vote for Hillary because she's a woman, Obama because he's black, or McCain because he's white and male. That's going to happen. Period. What is unacceptable in my view, is when people actually vote AGAINST someone... not because of who their chosen candidate is, but because they harbor a prejudice toward the candidate they would otherwise pick.

    Basically, if people voted for McCain because he's neither female nor black. That, for me, is FAR more alarming... and has nothing to do with what we all know about identity politics.... it has to do with the politics of fear and prejudice. People could vote for you because you wear a bow-tie, and folks think that's just swell, for all I care. --Its the people that don't know WHO they like, but they know who they DON'T LIKE that represent the biggest danger to this country in my opinion.

    It's one thing to steer your car toward "red" things when you're driving through a rainbow. It's another to steer your car AWAY from the color "blue" (while staring at it intensely), simply because its "blue" (and damned if you don't HATE BLUE), and not looking where you're going otherwise. I can virtually guarantee more accidents per capita with that flavor of discrimination.

    ~ CB
     
  5. és: macrumors 6502a

    és:

    #5
    I got over that a long time ago and never suggested it was going anywhere. I'm just suggesting what people need to do for a better tomorrow and voting for someone because of who they are instead of what they do isn't going to achieve that.

    It's exactly the same thing, in my opinion. It's just as random. It's just discriminatory and just as potentially damaging. In fact, they are each a by-product of the other.
     
  6. Pittsax macrumors 6502

    Pittsax

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    #6
    Basically because there's a boatload of Clinton supporters who can't come to grips with the fact that she lost the primary election, and are trying to come up with every possible explanation for it. All the while, they ignore the fact that the deck was so heavily stacked in favor of her from the outset that the election was hers to lose, and lose it she did.

    If that's going to be their attitude, fine. Everyone has the freedom to act like a 3 year-old and hold their breath until they turn blue. But if you're going to do that, just stay home in November. It's the people that would actually go out and vote for McCain, not because they support him, but because they're punishing Obama for running a better campaign that I take issue with. Do you REALLY want to vote for someone who is night and day compared to Clinton on every single issue (except for that Iraq vote)? If you're so supportive of women (sexism being the major excuse for her loss), do you really want to vote for a president who is going to put more Alitos and Scalias on the Supreme Court?

    Bottom line: if you are still pouting about Hillary not being on the ticket come November, do me and the entire country a favor and just stay home.
     
  7. BoyBach macrumors 68040

    BoyBach

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    #7
    Is it not because the Democratic Party forgot that the point was to put a Democratic nomination in the White House; instead the candidates became to preoccupied with being the Democratic nomination and have committed political seppuku?
     
  8. fivepoint macrumors 65816

    fivepoint

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    #8
    I won't vote for any candidate who wears yellow ties. :cool:
     
  9. Lyle macrumors 68000

    Lyle

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    #9
    Just an observation from someone on the opposite side of the aisle (politically speaking): terminology like this probably doesn't help to build bridges between the Clinton and Obama camps.
     
  10. Pittsax macrumors 6502

    Pittsax

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    #10
    Neither does taking your bat and ball and going home because the Dem. primary wasn't just a formality for Hillary's waltz into the White House. The bottom line is that her supporters' behavior is what precipitated this kind of language.
     
  11. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #11
    What, prey tell, would work?
     
  12. Lyle macrumors 68000

    Lyle

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    #12
    Well, this Republican hopes nothing works. ;)

    But I guess I see your point. One might hypothesize that at least making a show of considering her for the VP slot would have helped to heal the "coven"'s wounds, but who knows?
     
  13. Thomas Veil thread starter macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

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    #13
    I chose that word rather deliberately.

    I'm not one to slam Clinton by calling her a witch, and especially not the "b" word that rhymes with it. Though I was disappointed in her behavior during the latter part of the primaries, I did defend her against people taking cheap shots at her. But the followers of hers that I was talking about have already burned their bridges, so I'm not beneath slamming them.

    Perhaps that's mean of me, but I'm just getting sick of their attitude, which strikes me as condescending and sexist.

    I do think if wouldn't have hurt Obama to say something nice about Clinton (and the other people he was considering) when he made his speech introducing Biden as his VP choice.
     
  14. Pittsax macrumors 6502

    Pittsax

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    #14
    I have to disagree. The Obama/Biden speech had nothing to do with Clinton, and to bring her up there would have made the campaign look even more worried about Clinton than the concessions they've been making to her at the convention already do.

    Anyone who interpreted a non-mention at that event as a snub against Clinton is most likely already lost.
     
  15. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #15
    How could you possibly want to continue Bush's failed policies by electing McCain? That's more puzzling than Hillary supporters.
     
  16. MacNut macrumors Core

    MacNut

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    #16
    Not really a fan of either but if a Clinton supporter doesn't like Obama as a candidate why should they be forced to support him. Don't say well because its for the good of the party. If they don't like him they don't like him. I don't think they should give in to their beliefs just to support the party. Vote for the person not the party. I have never been a fan of party politics for that very reason. Why vote for someone you don't agree with just because they are the parties nominee.
     
  17. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #17
    If there were solid policy differences between the two, I'd get it. There aren't, so it makes no sense for them to go vote for McCain.
     
  18. MacNut macrumors Core

    MacNut

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    #18
    I have a few family members thats are stanch Democrats that won't vote for Obama under any circumstances.
     
  19. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #19
    What possible, reasonable explanation could they have? Because if you look at both Hillary and Obama, there's no real difference.
     
  20. MacNut macrumors Core

    MacNut

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    #20
    Honestly, skin color and name is what I think is the reason.
     
  21. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #21
    Then they're not the most intelligent people in the world. Perhaps they should become Republicans.
     
  22. MacNut macrumors Core

    MacNut

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    #22
    Thats the thing, they are as liberal as it gets. They just don't trust Obama for whatever reason.
     
  23. beatzfreak macrumors 6502

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    #23
    But you are calling Hillary a witch by caller her supporters a coven. And by calling her supporters names, Aren't you resorting to the same behavior you are so disappointed in with regards to Hillary and her campaign?

    I personally don't believe there are lost causes until a vote is cast. If you listen to these Hillary supporters, they feel neglected and feel their candidate is being snubbed. They are vulnerable right now as they still had hopes of Hillary becoming VP. McCain and republicans are taking advantage and reaching out. It's possible that the threats of some Hillary supporters to not support Obama are just knee jerk reactions. Both Hillary and Obama need to find a way to reach out to these voters. Hopefully, cooler heads will prevail and they'll come around. We may need them.

    As much as I would love to join the "get over it" crowd, it seems to push these Hiilary supporters closer to the dark side.
     
  24. Thomas Veil thread starter macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

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    #24
    A valid point.

    Perhaps. I don't necessarily agree calling them a coven = calling Clinton a witch. Clinton's gotten past this thing -- they haven't.

    I also don't know if they deserve much respect. This is a team game here, and while everybody might not agree on the choice of quarterback, if they don't feel they can play, they should at least sit on the bench. What they should not be doing is threatening to throw the game.

    This is what I find troubling. Plenty of other people pinned their hopes on Edwards or Richardson or Kucinich, or, in other elections, on Kennedy, Brown, Gephart and others. You didn't see any of this kind of behavior from them, though. So boo-hoo for the Clinton diehards. They need to stop acting like a vice presidential slot is their divine birthright.
     
  25. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #25
    Apparently the sticking point on the "Clinton as VP" issue was Bill's unwillingness to have his financial dealings of the past 8 years scrutinized. Thus, the issue was a non-starter from the beginning.
     

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