The Demographics of Firearm Homicide

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by citizenzen, Mar 30, 2013.

  1. citizenzen, Mar 30, 2013
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2013

    citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    #1
    We've skirted around this issue for a while now, and it's about time we met it head on.

    What is the role that race plays in the gun debate?

    The first thing we need is good statistics to establish basic facts.

    I will be posting my findings later. I have to make breakfast and get on with my day.

    But feel free to share facts and statistics that break down firearm homicide (or overall death) by race so we can better understand the issue from that standpoint.
     
  2. xShane macrumors 6502a

    xShane

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    #2
    The fact that many races are discriminated against.
     
  3. Shrink macrumors G3

    Shrink

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    #3

    And your point is??

    Let's say somebody's statistics demonstrate more white people own guns than black people? and let's say that white people commit more gun related crimes.

    What happens then?? Put all white people in jail as a pre-emptive strike against gun violence.

    Now, let's say somebodies statistics demonstrate that more African-Americans own guns. And that they are more like.y to commit gun related crimes?

    What then??
     
  4. citizenzen thread starter macrumors 65816

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    #4
    The point is to at least establish the quantifiable facts.

    We did that in another thread to find the percentage of gang-related firearm homicides.

    It never hurts to know the facts.

    Which again ... I will contribute to that effort ... I just don't have the time to devote to it this beautiful spring morning.
     
  5. Mac'nCheese macrumors 68030

    Mac'nCheese

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    #5
    Strange that you started a thread with a homework assignment for us while you hit a few balls. ;)
    I wish we could get past this breaking everything down by race crap. I really do. The less we separate people, the better off we are. As A great actor once said, "stop referring to me as a black man and just call me a man". Or something like that.
     
  6. MacNut macrumors Core

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    I agree, there is nothing more racist then defining a person by their race.
     
  7. Eraserhead macrumors G4

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  8. eric/ Guest

    eric/

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    #8
    It's all about your upbringing, not your race.
     
  9. Shrink, Mar 30, 2013
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2013

    Shrink macrumors G3

    Shrink

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    #9
    Assuming, for a moment, after you have returned from playing outside, that you post some "quantifiable facts". No, it doesn't hurt to know "facts", I am asking the purpose of knowing said "facts". "Facts" which lead to what conclusions?

    "Facts" without purpose, conclusion, suggestion of action, are not "facts"...they are factoids... little pellets of information with no particular purpose other than to exist per se....trivia, if you will.

    But it is my impression that you have a larger agenda than to just drop a few pellets of information. It is my impression, I could be wrong, that you want inferences drawn from the facts you wish to impart (when you have the time).

    But since we don't have access, yet, to your "facts", we won't know.

    I await, with baited breath, your "facts"...and, of course, the primary source of these "facts", that we might all evaluate the accuracy of the "facts", and the methodology employed to gather the "facts".
     
  10. citizenzen thread starter macrumors 65816

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    The first thing facts help do is dispel ignorance or misinformation. The best example that recently occurred in these threads was revealing—by combing through solid sources—what was the percentage of gang-related firearm homicides (~16%) to firearm homicides as a whole.

    Bringing that "factoid" to light did nothing to explain gang violence. It just helped to put the effect of it into perspective.
     
  11. Shrink macrumors G3

    Shrink

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    #11
    Point taken...:D
     
  12. glocke12 macrumors 6502a

    glocke12

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    #12
    hmmm..never mind...staying out of this one
     
  13. TuffLuffJimmy macrumors G3

    TuffLuffJimmy

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    #13
    It's embarrassing and yet not entirely unexpected to see a thread like this in here.
    Citizenzen, is this thread made with the intent of demonizing a certain race? Which one?
     
  14. Shrink macrumors G3

    Shrink

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    #14
    Let me take a wild, crazy, totally blind stab in the dark and say it won't be Caucasians, if demonization is the point here.

    Of course, no one will admit to demonizing anybody...just present "the facts".
     
  15. citizenzen thread starter macrumors 65816

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    #15
    If you've been participating in many of these gun threads you'll see that race already plays a part in people's perceptions about gun violence.

    In the case of gang-related homicide, we were able to demonstrate a relatively low level of involvement.

    Unfortunately, I suspect that won't be the case when it comes to looking at gun violence and race. I think we know that blacks are disproportionately involved.

    However, I don't know how those numbers actually break out. I look forward to taking the time to do so and using this thread to post those results.
     
  16. FrankieTDouglas macrumors 65816

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    #16
    Then put the slip and slide away and ****ing do it.
     
  17. MrWillie macrumors 65816

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    Instead of doing it by race, let's do it by demographics. Or better yet, lets do both. How many Caucasians vs Non Hispanic Blacks are involved in firearms violence in the Brownsville, Brooklyn, Housing Projects ?

    Race has nothing to do with it, it's demographics. Compare a housing project that is predominantly white with an upper class predominantly black neighborhood and the statics will be slanted opposite of my first scenario.
     
  18. citizenzen thread starter macrumors 65816

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    #18
    I totally agree.

    The thread title has been changed to reflect this new direction.

    I've found a wealth of information at the FBI's website ...

    There you'll find numerous easy to read tables that break homicide down in a number of ways.

    It will take some work to tease out just the firearm stats but it will be a good starting point.
     
  19. MrWillie macrumors 65816

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    #19
    But what about non homicides. Armed robbery, getting your head cracked open with the butt of a weapon ? What about the times when the felons obeyed the law and decided instead of using a gun, they stabbed someone, ran them over with a car, or beat them with a bat ? (I spent a year and Maine, and a young man up there was released from prison only to have a tire iron shoved through his chest a few days later.)

    There are lies, damn lies, and then there is statistics. Please, let's not manipulate the truth by not presenting ALL the facts, to include ALL the ways people were killed.
     
  20. citizenzen thread starter macrumors 65816

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    #20
    No manipulation intended.

    The information is out there for those that wish to avail themselves to it.

    What truth's are spun from it is up to the individual.
     
  21. JBazz macrumors 6502

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    #21
    Why is it one group of men always wants to point out how violent another group of men are? Why not talk about why men are more violent than women across all socio-economic divides?

    Sure, you could pick out the most privileged male and compare it to the most underprivileged female, but that's not what I am talking about. Pick any group, and within that group the men are always so much more violent than the women. Why?

    If we fool ourselves into believing that we live in a society that values nonviolence and community, then why are men still more highly valued than women?

    It doesn't matter to me what group of American men are more violent than another group of American men. What I want to know is why are my fathers, brothers, sons, and cousins here in the US more violent than the Canadians? Or English? Or French? Or Japanese? Even our mothers, sisters, wives, and cousins are more violent than their sisters? Why?
     
  22. citizenzen thread starter macrumors 65816

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    #22
    An excellent point, and one clearly backed by the numbers.


    Of the 10,623 homicides where the offenders sex was known, ~89.3% were males and ~10.7 were female.
     
  23. MacNut macrumors Core

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    #23
    What about age? How may homicides were from those 12-18, 18-45, 45-60.
     
  24. MrWillie macrumors 65816

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    A reason to promote a gun grab maybe ??? I am not sure what the OP's intent is, but the title of the thread is ...Firearm Homicide, even though not all homicides involve firearms. If one wants to discuss violence I general and not just homicide, you're welcome to do so.

    Because men are the hunter/gathers, the dominate one of the species. They are also the protectors. Let me ask you this, your 18 year old daughter is rather rudely being hit on by a dirty old man, (someone in the neighborhood of your age) then what ?

    Women can be violent and vicious, they just go about it in different ways. They use golf clubs (Tiger's ex), poison their spouses, burn their girlfriends cloths on the front lawn. Heck, in New Orleans they had a female cop that was part of a robbery, and she shot her partner in clod blood. Pay a little more attention when you watch the news, they are there.

    Who said Americans are more violent ? Are you just talking about firearm violence, homicide, or violence in general ?
     
  25. citizenzen thread starter macrumors 65816

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    #25
    Once again, the intent is to look at the data to [perhaps] help us gain clarity about an issue in the news and on people's minds.

    So many assumptions.

    I don't recall anybody saying Americans are more violent overall. However, when compared to other developed nations we have far more guns and far more gun violence.
     

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