The end of American Exceptionalism

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by jpietrzak8, May 16, 2017.

  1. jpietrzak8 macrumors 65816

    jpietrzak8

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    #1
    Politico has a new article out detailing one effect of Trump's leadership that I personally find most distressing; his appreciation for, and emulation of, strongman leaders. You can argue one way or another whether the "I alone can fix it" model is good for America, but it certainly does send a message to other countries.

    Let me quote the first few paragraphs of the piece:

    On a recent visit to Washington, members of an official Chinese delegation told their congressional hosts that Jared Kushner, with his murky mix of business and political interests, reminded them of a wealthy young communist “princeling” in their own country.

    When Capitol Hill aides warned officials from another repressive foreign government that they could pay a political price for human rights abuses, their visitors scoffed: President Donald Trump had just called their leader, they said, and told him he was doing a great job.

    In addition to those interactions, recounted by people who were present, in the days after Trump fired FBI Director James Comey, one diplomat from an undemocratic nation told POLITICO he was taking a guilty pleasure in the spectacle. “Now you guys can’t lecture everyone else anymore,” he said.​

    http://www.politico.com/story/2017/05/16/trump-strongman-erdogan-238418

    This is the real problem of a leader like Trump in the White House; as he slowly destroys customs, traditions, and the very rule of law itself, this nation's status as upholding freedom and equality, however shaky that might have been, is destroyed as well.
     
  2. VulchR macrumors 68020

    VulchR

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    #2
    I believe the US is being exceptional now. Just not in a good way.... Kinda like the UK and Brexit.
     
  3. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

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    Only good can come from the USA (finally, being the last country on the planet to believe so) getting the hell over itself and realizing it's not the greatest place on earth (healthcare, education, life expectancy, child lead poisoning rates :rolleyes:) and instead working to become a nation that matches the rhetoric about itself with policy to support it.
     
  4. Dagless macrumors Core

    Dagless

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    #4
    Recently I saw a graph indicating the US has the worst rates of deaths during childbirth among the developed world. They're exceptional alright, though I'm constantly reminded of strict middle east states too (though they have better healthcare).
     
  5. TonyC28 macrumors 65816

    TonyC28

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    #5
    Perhaps a little over the top, but the opening scene of The Newsroom is a sobering take on the matter. We can be a good country. We can be a great country. We SHOULD be a great country. But the "we're the best country" that is beat into our heads at an early age is not always supported by the facts.

     
  6. pdqgp macrumors 68020

    pdqgp

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    #6
    ^^ there is irony bleeding from that statement. It's laughable really.
     
  7. VulchR macrumors 68020

    VulchR

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    As was pointed out to me in another thread, the childbirth death rate in the US might be artificially high because the US counts a 'live birth' when a very premature infant is born with little chance of life, whereas other countries do not. Still the US health care costs twice as much per capita as most other industrialised countries, but the outcome is about the same.
     
  8. DrewDaHilp1 macrumors 6502a

    DrewDaHilp1

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    #8
    America isn't without it's faults, but I will never believe another Country is better than us.
     
  9. jpietrzak8 thread starter macrumors 65816

    jpietrzak8

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    #9
    I'm not quite as worried about our conception of ourselves, as I am about foreign ideas about us. Post WWII, the US had some pretty amazing positive views abroad, at least in the free world. We've been losing that bit by bit over the years, but I think Trump is really putting us into a nose-dive now...
     
  10. IronWaffle macrumors 6502

    IronWaffle

    #10
    I've always been skeptical about the label, "American Exceptionalism" if for no other reason than such honorifics should be touted by others rather touted than oneself and that it is the kind of concept that should be taken as fleeting in that it is dependent on actions being reliable as well as philosophically consistent both within and without the borders of any nation claiming exceptionalism.

    If any one thing can be learned from Trump perhaps ur is as simple as what we believe about ourselves is not impervious to what others believe. Foster a schism at one's own peril.
     
  11. steve knight, May 16, 2017
    Last edited: May 16, 2017

    steve knight macrumors 68020

    steve knight

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    #11
    got evidence of that besides that you live here?
     
  12. jkcerda macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

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    #12
    that's because you did not see the crimes of the last administration.
    --- Post Merged, May 16, 2017 ---
    it's Obama you are thinking off, unless you can show trump doing it.
     
  13. WarHeadz macrumors 6502a

    WarHeadz

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    #13
    We're not exceptional anymore, we're just "special" now.
     
  14. DrewDaHilp1 macrumors 6502a

    DrewDaHilp1

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    Sure. I've been to several others that were far less impressive than the US.
     
  15. niploteksi macrumors regular

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    Well... the Vietnam war and then POTUS 43. For many people in the western world these were debacles that were quite prominent.

    I think many of us still had this feeling of the US being dealt a really lousy hand. First the Vietnam war that was just doomed to be a complete disaster, then Bush having to pick up the pieces from the 9/11 attacks. A lot of people were really confused how he could be elected though.

    But with the election of Donald Trump? Yes, I think the last credibility the US still had went straight down the drain with this. I'm well aware that many of the people who did vote (and many who didn't) for Trump couldn't possibly care less about what the rest of the world thinks of their country. Basically it all boils down to information and context.

    This is what I do think: when and if Trump is kicked out of office, it's going to do wonders for how the world views the US and I suspect that it's also going to do wonders for the US itself. The democracy rating will sky rocket.
     
  16. Huntn macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #16
    Our exceptionalism has been flushed, although I can't say it's permanent. Trump seems to have have screwed us over all by himself, but only after his minions and enough gullible voters lifted him on their shoulders. :(
     
  17. DrewDaHilp1 macrumors 6502a

    DrewDaHilp1

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    #17
    If our exceptionalism is gone and the Worlds perception of us is bad, does that mean they are going to deny our foreign and military aid?
     
  18. IronWaffle macrumors 6502

    IronWaffle

    #18
    We're a snowflake?
     
  19. jpietrzak8 thread starter macrumors 65816

    jpietrzak8

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    #19
    I think that's starting to happen...

    https://www.rt.com/op-edge/387897-moon-south-korea-thaad-us/

    Getting involved with the US is becoming a worse and worse deal as time goes on. And heck, China is starting to throw around cash in a lot of places these days. Who really needs the US any more?
     
  20. WarHeadz macrumors 6502a

    WarHeadz

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    #20
    Very much so. The head snowflake resides in the Oval Office.
     
  21. niploteksi macrumors regular

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    #21
    You mean the aid that you aren't going to give anyone not paying for it? The only aid anyone even needed from the US was against the Russian led Soviet "expansion" from the already occupied territories of Europe. Now that the US has become a fandom state of Russia and Putin, scrapping NATO and destabilizing Europe on purpose, it's not so clear what our relationship is anymore.

    How about you and your buddies in Russia stop sending us floods of refugees to begin with?
     
  22. DrewDaHilp1 macrumors 6502a

    DrewDaHilp1

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    #22
    Who is us? What refugees?
     
  23. jkcerda macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

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    #23
    did you have a problem with the refugees when Obama was sending them?
     
  24. DrewDaHilp1 macrumors 6502a

    DrewDaHilp1

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    #24
    Apparently Trumps win turned some people into Islamophobes
     
  25. pdqgp macrumors 68020

    pdqgp

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    #25
    ^^ this. hopefully those that aren't happy will leave, not come here and go elsewhere leaving the rest of us who are PROUD to be Americans to enjoy our country. It's high-time we begin to focus on ourselves first.
     

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