The fringe movement to keep Barack Obama from becoming president

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Cleverboy, Dec 5, 2008.

  1. Cleverboy macrumors 65816

    Cleverboy

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    #1
    http://www.slate.com/id/2206033/pagenum/all/
    I thought this was an interesting article. And, oh yeah... There will be a press conference at the National Press Club on Obama's citizenship on Monday. Market Watch reported this yesterday.

    Mr. Obama's Eligibility to be Aired
    Monday at the National Press Club

    http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/Mr-Obamas-Eligibility-Aired-Monday/story.aspx?guid={35E191D7-D7BD-4722-BAF1-E6C0CBC18EA3}

    Lest we forget however, the National Press Club also hosted a press conference for Larry Sinclair, infamous Obama critic, right before he was arrested for theft and forgery charges. So, there's no accounting for subject matter.

    Ok, so... I'm thinking this is Slate, so its fair ground, although admittedly they've linked to fringe wingnut bloggery so is it a catch-22? :)

    I feel a little sad that people are struggling with this whole thing. You could swap in McCain, and there would be the EXACT same citizenship legal disputes, had he won. Unfortunately for McCain, they would be much more founded, and would require congress to immediately pass standing amendments on issues surrounding military families. I get my nose out of joint when people can't see when things simply need to be dealt with (like the question surrounding Hillary Clinton as SoS... she'll need to have a pay cut to be confirmed).

    The Obama situation, however is absolutely contrived. I feel sorry for his paternal grandmother in Kenya with all the people using clips of her being badgered or misinterpreted as proof of something she's never actually said (although she did clearly remark about being happy when she received a letter in the mail from the U.S., informing her she had a new grandson, despite the consternation of her husband). I also appreciate that these fringe people would assert that Obama was born in Kenya from these lame, mostly truncated conversations, and yet have no verifiable evidence that Ann Dunham ever traveled to Kenya after marrying Obama Sr, and before Obama Jr was born (during her second and third trimester).

    What cynical, cynical people these be.

    ~ CB
     
  2. rdowns macrumors Penryn

    rdowns

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    #2
    I fail to see the point of this thread especially given yesterday's thread.
     
  3. Blue Velvet Moderator emeritus

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    #3

    I very much doubt it. It was never a big deal on the left. Not their kind of thing...
     
  4. Cleverboy thread starter macrumors 65816

    Cleverboy

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    #4
    That Slate has rendered a fine article putting all of this elections post vote contention into context? I think its a good article, worth discussing. No? It's not trying to convince anyone of anything, other than exploring the fringe movement that we've all heard pieces of.

    ~ CB
     
  5. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #5
    I agree. Sorry CB, the fact is that there are a lot racist whack jobs out there who just can't fathom why the Republicans lost. It should be obvious, but they just don't get it.

    I see no point in discussing this any further.
     
  6. és: macrumors 6502a

    és:

    #6
    I fully agree. This is petty and pointless.
     
  7. gilkisson macrumors 65816

    gilkisson

    #7
    It is time to draw upon yet another lesson from history, one that is ironically very apt, and poignant.
    --Robert E. Lee

    -- Abraham Lincoln

    Now isn't the time to preach sedition, folks. It is time to preach unity. Not for the glory of personal ideology, but for the benefit of our country.
     
  8. Cleverboy thread starter macrumors 65816

    Cleverboy

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    #8
    I understand. We're going to be hearing about this until inauguration though. It's pretty cancerous.

    A friend at work months ago was asking, "why doesn't Obama just show his birth certificate?" and we got into it. He remained unconvinced., and he voted for him. He unfortunately listens to tools like Jay Severin, here in Mass... because he finds it interesting, but there it is. I'd prefer to have all my facts lined up and control the discussion because I was keeping an eye on what was happening. It's not just the racist whack jobs sometimes.

    ~ CB
     
  9. 63dot macrumors 603

    63dot

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    #9
    When Ann Coulter gets her jaw injury restored after her injury, then I would not be surprised if she goes on air about this story. She also does not like John McCain. :)
     
  10. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #10
    Did you tell your friend he DID present his birth certificate?

    OMG- I just read the article. These people are BEYOND crazy. It's some new form of insane for which their is no word. Hey wingnuts! The American people voted! You lost! Please go see a shrink or something.
     
  11. Cleverboy thread starter macrumors 65816

    Cleverboy

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    #11
    It never ceases to amaze me how that response gets turned into a debate about "real" (ie. long form) vs "fake" (ie, short form) birth certficate. These days I'm also armed with links to the official Hawaii birth certificate request form (which does not feature any distinction, and produces a short form certificate fully acceptable by the State department).

    The weird ass line of reasoning I've been tracking has been... the graphical scan his campaign produced originally was photoshopped, but its been confirmed subsequently that the short form certificate is authentic and looks exactly like the one originally furnished, yet the "graphical analysis" of the digital file is clung to as evidence of forgery, despite independent sites like FactCheck.org and rightwing sites like WorldNetDaily confirming the authenticity of the document in person (complete with stamp, etc). When this thread runs dry, they turn to tortured explanations about dual citizenship and renouncments and statues, and how much the Constitution matters. Most people stop with the birth certificate however, and can't quite understand why its so difficult to show them the "longform" certificate, so that they can pick over it and eventually declare it a fake, or find a new wrinkle that renews their arguments.

    I think the biggest problem of this, is that to officially acknowledge these types of people, is to validate their techniques. The whole "real certificate" v. "fake certificate" thing is a horrifying rat hole. I think the going allegation is that people want to know #1.) What doctor's name is on the long form certificate (are they still alive). #2.) What hospital name is on the long form certificate (is there a birth record there) #3.) Whether the long form certificate shows evidence that it was amended or generated for an out of state birth. #4.) Does it list the same state, country as the short form does.

    I'm almost inclined to put a website together than meticulously attempts to detail the winding thread of the series of pronouncements, jsut to keep them in line with reality and not have them represent this ADD generation we live in by leaping from one disjointed explanation to another. A recent NEW bubble was that someone allegedly called all the hospitals in Honolulu and could not confirm with any of them that Obama had been born there (not just at the one that's most often mentioned).

    It's this proliferation of unvetted and circumstantial tomfoolery that seeks to become a mantra of extremists. That truly bothers me. We all remember "Grand Theft America: Part I - The Last Recount". Now its "Grand Theft America: Part II - The Obamanation" featuring a Hitler-esque black man who preaches socialism, eats babies, and wasn't born here.

    I know I'm a fool to try plugging the imaginary leaky dam, but for my own santity, I'm inclined to try.
    I was on another forum and couldn't help myself from suggesting one such person had some type of mental affliction, while using the most sympathetically sincere tone. I was told that the posts had to be deleted because the person apparently lost their mind. I wish I could have read it. I really was concerned about them.

    ~ CB
     
  12. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #12
    What makes me ill is that this is almost the same crap they pulled with Clinton. Digging and digging, and finding absolutely nothing despite all that money wasted. You know what? Let them. Let them keep looking like the idiots they are. It'll just make people angry and make them look stupid. I'm fine with that. It should keep them out of government for a good long time. :mad:
     
  13. atszyman macrumors 68020

    atszyman

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    #13
    Does anyone remember the outrage when the rumor about Trig Palin being Bristol's baby started and was subsequently debunked and died a very quick death?

    Why does the Obama wasn't born here rumor persist?

    To date Obama has produced infinitely more legitimate legal papers proving his citizenship than Sarah Palin did to prove that she gave birth to Trig, she never released a birth certificate and instead of her medical records we got a doctor's note stating that she was in excellent health.
     
  14. Cleverboy thread starter macrumors 65816

    Cleverboy

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    #14
    Palin's baby drama, was much more recent an event, and featured a cast of current witnesses at the hospital where she gave birth. Everyone of Obama's maternal relatives, present at the time, have died... the last dying the day before election day. Face it, you couldn't have a more perfect storm.

    --And yes, the Obama story targets his eligibility to be President. The Palin story targets her character, which is nigh bullet-proof to those that would have still voted GOP.

    ~ CB
     
  15. atszyman macrumors 68020

    atszyman

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    #15
    I don't remember where I was born, so if all of those around at the time of my birth who would remember were to pass away, does that bring the locale of my birth into question all of a sudden? Regardless of what the legitimate paperwork says?

    Is legal documentation subject to question if no more witnesses are around to verify it?
     
  16. Cleverboy thread starter macrumors 65816

    Cleverboy

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    #16
    Isn't it awful? This is an amazing thing to me that someone could question where you were born and the authenticity of your documentation... and quickly switch off to whether things beyond your control, like automatic citizenship in other countries or your parents actions with regards to being naturalized in other countries, might somehow muddy the process further. It blows me away that someone could, with a straight face, ask why there is no one alive who remembers the day you were born (consider the tragedies that took the lives of your mother, father, grandfather and grandmother).

    Seems pretty evil.

    ~ CB
     
  17. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #17
    Expect more. The nutjobs are out in full force now. And make no mistake, they ARE evil. This is just the beginning. They'll probably even bring back Kenneth Starr. :rolleyes:
     
  18. atszyman macrumors 68020

    atszyman

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    #18
    It's really a shame that I failed to get the names, addresses, and phone numbers from the court office where I obtained my marriage license. How will I ever prove that my wife and I are legally married without witnesses to corroborate that I did not forge the paperwork? I also didn't make sure that the hospital staff would remember our kids. What if they can't recall our particular children if our kids' citizenship ever comes into question?

    Of course even if there were witnesses, they'd all be dragged through the mud to ruin their credibility and be cited as co-conspirators.

    It really is awfully convenient that when he was merely an infant, his family had enough foresight to forge the whereabouts of his birth so that he could make a highly improbable run for president. What vision and optimism they had.
     
  19. Blue Velvet Moderator emeritus

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    #19

    Well... when you're bringing the AntiChrist into this world, you make sure you plan ahead and take a packed lunch. ;)
     
  20. Sun Baked macrumors G5

    Sun Baked

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    #20
    Or one of the cooking personalities to talk about the proper way to season and cook politicians.
     
  21. mgguy macrumors 6502

    mgguy

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    #21
     
  22. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #22
    And Obama has provided the necessary documentation proving the whereabouts of his birth. He's a natural born citizen- end of story. It's been confirmed by authorities as well. This whole stupid movement is just that- stupid. And full of a bunch of nuts who can't accept reality.
     
  23. mgguy macrumors 6502

    mgguy

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    #23
     
  24. leekohler macrumors G5

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    #24
    None of what they were looking for was found, so they had to delve into his personal life. He got impeached for lying about a blow job. And BTW- in case you forgot, he was acquitted. So there you go- nothing.
     
  25. mgguy macrumors 6502

    mgguy

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    #25
    You might be right. But it is, or was, a legitimate issue to pursue. I get the feeling that many posters here wouldn't care if he weren't born here now that he has been elected.
     

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