The General's Report

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Sayhey, Jun 16, 2007.

  1. Sayhey macrumors 68000

    Sayhey

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    #1
    There is an article in this month's New Yorker by Seymour Hersh that I would encourage everyone to read. It is based on Hersh's interview with General Antonio Taguba, the author of one of the most damning reports on the Abu Ghraib scandal. Here is the last few paragraphs of Hersh's article.
    emphasis added
     
  2. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #2
    Sadly, the words "I resign" appear to have been left out of the White House lexicon.
     
  3. solvs macrumors 603

    solvs

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    #3
    Sadly, this wasn't really as surprising as it's being played as.
     
  4. Sayhey thread starter macrumors 68000

    Sayhey

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    #4
    I don't want it to get lost what a huge deal it is for Taguba to say the things he does. This man wrote the most important report on Abu Ghraib and if he condemns his superiors for having gone along with torture, as he does, it is a big, big deal. Not that it won't get lost in the critical 24 hour news report on how Paris is doing in jail, but that's another question.
     
  5. Dont Hurt Me macrumors 603

    Dont Hurt Me

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    #5
    An American administration pushing for....Torture??? What has Bush done. All the worlds goodwill after 911 thrown away,stomped on,destroyed by a bunch of draft dodgers wanting another arms race with everyone. What a great example BUSH the false christian is for Torture.
     
  6. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #6
    it will, sadly. used to be that the administration would go on the attack, saying he's writing a book or somesuch and is seeking publicity. nowadays they don't even bother, which i find fascinating in and of itself.
     
  7. Thomas Veil macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

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    #7
    And that's wherein the problem lies. We now live in the Age of Unaccountability.

    The Republicans' motto should be, "The buck stops somewhere else."
     
  8. Sayhey thread starter macrumors 68000

    Sayhey

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    #8
    I hope you're wrong zim, but I wouldn't bet on it.

    There is this interview on CNN with Hersh that is interesting as well.
     
  9. solvs macrumors 603

    solvs

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    #9
    We already know what they're doing. But sadly, most of us don't care. Or feel powerless to do anything. Seems even Congress is unwilling and/or unable to do anything about it. So they don't feel the need to bother. Watching the current chest thumping, I'm half expecting them to just start saying "what are you going to do about it". Which they pretty much have been kinda already. But there have been little to no consequences for the perpetrators save lower poll numbers, so they must not see the need to mention it unless it gets any play. Which it hasn't because, as I said, no one is surprised. And he's only the latest of many saying the same things.

    If it does get out there more, then they'll go on the attack, even if it falls on deaf ears and they barely keep the same 30% satisfied.
     
  10. dswoodley macrumors 6502a

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    #10
    Of course the vast majority of the US Military has these values, but it only takes a handful of screwups to give the entire organization a black eye.
     
  11. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #11
    i want to make sure i understand: you are saying, as the administration has been claiming for years, that the torture was the unapproved actions of a few low-level soldiers? is that your claim?
     
  12. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #12
    The alternative being that soldiers of all nations have always been both prone and willing to abuse their enemies, such being the very root and ultimate purpose of their training and existence, and without clear and unambiguous ethical precepts being passed down from higher up in the chain of command these tendencies will manifest themselves.
     
  13. dswoodley macrumors 6502a

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    #13
    I am saying the vast majority of military personnel are morally opposed and ethically trained against such actions.

    How on earth did you get that out of my statement?
     
  14. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #14
    if that statement was intended at face value only, why even bother saying it? no one disputes it, the question is from how high up the chain of command the torture orders came, not how soldiers are trained.

    because at face value, the statement is utterly useless. so i asked if you meant something else by it. forgive me for thinking you posted in order to say something.
     
  15. dswoodley macrumors 6502a

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    #15
    I posted the first time, because it was clear to me it other posts were suggesting this is a common practice in the US Military. Sorry if that is not "something" enough for you.
     
  16. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #16
    Abuse is the default practice of any military, including the US, trained to kill a demonised and dehumanised enemy. It is, as I pointed out above, up to the higher ranks to moderate that default behaviour.
     
  17. zimv20 macrumors 601

    zimv20

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    #17
    utter rubbish. nobody suggested anything remotely like that, and in fact the thread is about how torture is the fault of those higher up the chain, not the grunts.

    utter rubbish.
     
  18. dswoodley macrumors 6502a

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    #18
    I really can't do much about your contrarian attitude. My comment stands. If you don't like it fine. Nowhere in my comments do I make any reference to the military heirarchy levels. My comments applied to the entire structure.
     
  19. Ugg macrumors 68000

    Ugg

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    #19
    The Washington Post has had an excellent series on the health care of Veterans. It has focused on Walter Reed but hasn't limited itself to the one hospital. One thing that's perfectly clear from this anti-veteran fiasco on the part of the Pentagon is that
    1. recruiters are now being encouraged to sign up the mentally ill
    2. if they were mentally ill before they entered the military, they won't get any help once they leave
    3. If they weren't mentally ill before they signed up but become so in the course of war, there's damned little hope that they'll get any help once they get out, because the Pentagon and bushco simply don't care about the vets.

    4. If all these mentally ill soldiers are being admitted to the military or are becoming mentally illl through repeated service, don't you think that it's sort of stupid to say "the vast majority"?

    It's time for the US to get off its high horse and realize that once again, the Pentagon is scraping the bottom of the barrel and the results are proving to be disastrous both for Iraq and the Iraqis and for us.

    We haven't even mentioned the thought that the mercenaries are recruited for their ability to kill, not to protect....
     
  20. dswoodley macrumors 6502a

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    #20
    Mentally ill? Are you serious? I can't find the source, can you please post? That's scary.
     
  21. Ugg macrumors 68000

    Ugg

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    #21
    Here is the page to the WP's coverage of Walter Reed and mental illness, specifically, Post Traumatic syndrome. There are a lot of articles there going back to early in the year when the scandal broke.

     

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