The GOP Doesn’t Want To Repeal Obamacare After All (But Please Don’t Notice)

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by iBlazed, Apr 19, 2015.

  1. iBlazed macrumors 68000

    iBlazed

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    #1
    After beating their heads against a wall for 5 straight years, it seems that the Republicans are finally giving up on their failed attempts to repeal Obamacare. Coincidentally, this happens at a time when the percentage of Americans who want to repeal the law is plummeting. Down to 40% now. Maybe they finally realized that if we're going to maintain a privatized healthcare system, this is pretty much the only way to do it. Mark my words, future generations will view Obamacare as indispensable as we view Medicare. They called Medicare "communism" at first too.

     
  2. Huntn, Apr 19, 2015
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2015

    Huntn macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #2
    I'll admit in advance the following is a bit hyperbolic, but not by much... ;)

    Hit the GOP upside the head with a 2x4 enough and eventually they might get it.

    How much reinforcement do Americans need to illustrate that the GOP is not working for us, but for their special interests and their oligarchical view of what The United States should be, a consolidation of wealth controlled by a few rich guys and large multinational corporations with the rest of us dancing like puppets on their strings.

    Sure they make symbolic gestures about liberty, freedom, but it's not your liberty they are worried about, it's the liberty of deregulation and a free hand so big business can have their way with you, the consumer and citizen. For the 90%, it's your freedom to scrape along with the morsels we kick your way. Tax cuts for you? Lol, just ignore the billionaires behind the curtain. ;)

    And they tout religion, but that is primarily a means of holding the reins of power, kind of like the Pope holds positional and financial authority as God's Earth bound power broker or the Motivational Speaking Mega Church Millionaire. Give them their religious exemptions and ability to discriminate and they'll keeping voting for us.
     
  3. Eric-PTEK macrumors 6502

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    #3
    Health care is not a right.

    If I am paying for your health care then I should have a say in what you eat, how much you work out, what kind of things you participate in because after all, its my money.

    Everyone loves subsidies until they don't. Customer of mine got married. His GF got a nice big fat subsidy. Then they got married, no longer qualify, had to pay back $1800 to the IRS.

    Quality of care will fall. More and more doctors, good ones, are going private. Cash only.

    Will lead eventually to dictating of what doctors can charge and make. That will cause them to leave the field or go private.

    So what will you end up with? The illusion of health care with higher costs and fewer options.
     
  4. Huntn macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #4
    You'll get a lot of traction from those who could not afford health care before. ;)
     
  5. Eric-PTEK macrumors 6502

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    #5

    They still cannot afford it.

    You realize that the subsidies pay for the bronze level right? I say that because I am assuming if you could not afford health care before, then your going to get the cheapest you can.

    And the bronze level you have to pay nearly 7K out of pocket before you get anything at all. That is the deductible. 7K before there is coverage.

    So all these people who are healthy and don't use it have a false sense of security until they actually goto the doctor.

    BTW not being able to afford it is more personal choice. What is more important, health insurance or something else in your life?

    Smoke and mirrors.
     
  6. Huntn macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #6
    So your position is tough luck, there is no solution? I look forward to GOP candidates verbalizing this position. :)
     
  7. I7guy macrumors G5

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    #7
    Thanks to the affordable care act, my health insurance coverage has declined while my premiums have gone up. I got sick in another state and had to go to an urgent care clinic...didn't even see a doctor; thanks to the ACA.
     
  8. Eric-PTEK macrumors 6502

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    #8
    Hardly.

    However since you did not disagree then you must see where this is smoke and mirrors.

    Take money out of people's pocket to give a false sense of security to others, while reducing the financial basis of the industry that causes qualified people to go elsewhere.

    It won't happen overnight, but it is happening.

    My opinion is hardly popular because it goes back to responsibility.

    Cash.

    Catastrophic insurance and cash. Here are 2 real life examples:

    I had an issue about 5 years ago. Had to have the same blood test over 3 months. First test done at University of Michigan, billed my insurance company $473. Second test I went to my local doctor, $274 billed to insurance. 3rd test I paid cash for at the lab, $74.

    Had to have an MRI, go prime time at 2pm in the afternoon, $2,300. Go at 2am when they are not busy, $400.

    Cash drives market prices down, and gives incentive to provide better server.

    Insurance pays X per patient seen in a GP practice. If the doctor needs Y then it becomes about how many X's can they pass though the door in a given day. Quantity matters.

    Lower what the insurance company pays, need to shuffle more people though the door. Shorter appointments, lower quality of care.

    Individuals eat like crap, don't work out, etc...but who cares I have insurance. Put it into cash out of their pocket and now their life choices make a lot more impact on what they do.

    And before you say the 10K deductible is too high, people can't afford it if it happens, BS. I carry a rider that costs me $32 per month for my wife and I. If there is a catastrophic event, i.e. heart attack, cancer, broken bones, auto accident, etc the rider pays my entire deductible.

    So I have a pretty fixed medical cost over the year. We have a private doctor on a concierge plan so I never use insurance but we carry it because right now the penalty is way higher than the bronze plan costs us.

    People in general are ignorant of the choices they have and I should not pay for their ignorance.

    Yep better get used to seeing PA's all the time.
     
  9. iBlazed thread starter macrumors 68000

    iBlazed

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    #9
    Then why do we have to give it to prisoners?

    nope.
    That applies to everyone else how exactly?

    Except you're lying and that's the opposite of what's actually happening. The medical industry is the fastest growing segment of our economy right now, directly thanks to the ACA. Try again.

    Keep fear mongering.
     
  10. Eric-PTEK macrumors 6502

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    #10
    Proof?

    And care to disprove my comments on the 7K deductible?

    It's not fear mongering. I have no concerns over our own health care, we do not participate within the system at all.

    I own my own business so the Obamacare fee is just another top line right off and if anything it ensures I meet the IRS minimum for health care right offs.

    This year we are looking at incorporating in a low income area in another state. Since benefit prices are based on income levels, population, etc we can create a presence in another state and pay the lowest rate possible.

    Bet you have not heard of that have you? Another liberal bright idea and good insurance brokers are suggesting this to all their business customers.
     
  11. Huntn macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #11
    There are many factors that have led to our high medical costs. Turning health care into big business, litigation, and insurance. I won't pretend I have a comprehensive solution or a solution at all. But I won't look to the GOP for solutions, their motto seems to be let the money flow.

    As far as doctors going cash, I look forward to that. Office visits for $10! ;) I've seen practices turn away from large insurance defined patient groups, just to come staggering back later, if they are still in business. I'm not cheering for this, just looking at the reality.
     
  12. Eric-PTEK macrumors 6502

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    #12
    Litigation for sure is a huge part. But no one on the left wants limits.

    Here is the thing about cash. It not only helps lower cost but it keeps the doctor in check.

    Right now a crappy doctor can rotate patients through and bill insurance with no consequence.

    A cash doctor has to perform, otherwise people go elsewhere. We belong to a concierge program and care is unreal. My doctor knows if he does not perform we go elsewhere.
     
  13. iBlazed thread starter macrumors 68000

    iBlazed

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    #13
    Easy. My parents have obamacare, pay $83 a month for blue cross blue shield. Deductible is $2000 or something like that. Doesn't apply to doctors visits either. They have horizon bcbs, therefore have all their previous doctors intact. Good luck convincing them and millions of others that obamacare is bad lol. I hear more very positive stories than negative ones. Therefore I feel that the horror stories are disingenuous.
     
  14. pdjudd macrumors 601

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    #14
    That’s silly. If a doctor that I visit doesn’t do their job and what they do doesn’t work, I am going to see another doctor. They know that darn well. If they have a rubbish reputation, people will stop seeing them no matter if they are clinic/insurance based or not.

    Furthermore all doctors are subject to the same penalties for malpractice and are all subject to lawsuits for negligence and are accountable to authorities.
     
  15. gibbz macrumors 68030

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    I agree there should be tort reform, but the effects of litigation are overstated.

    According to recent studies, costs associated with defensive medicine are only 2-3% of the total spending.

    Other data has shown that malpractice payments only account for 1-2% of spending, with the more important cause being insurance companies gouging malpractice rates.

    Technology has actually been found to be one the most important drivers of increasing costs, with administrative and hospital costs also being very important.
     
  16. iBlazed thread starter macrumors 68000

    iBlazed

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    #16
  17. Eric-PTEK macrumors 6502

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    #17
    Do yourself a favor.

    Call a few doctors tomorrow and ask for a NEW PATIENT appointment. See you in 6-8 weeks.

    http://dailycaller.com/2014/12/04/hhs-finally-admits-obamacare-premiums-are-rising/

    Are a minority of people seeing an improvement, sure. Is everyone else paying for it, absolutely.

    BTW the author of that article is a liberal supporter of Obamacare, not exactly a independent source.

    Also it does not give what projected job growth was, growing 1M isn't a big deal if the regular projection is 975,000.

    Second it fails to address the pay rates of those employee's. My soon to be BIL is a nurse in a cancer ward, just took a 26K a year pay cut. Everyone's income has been cut at his hospital.
     
  18. pdjudd macrumors 601

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    #18
    Last time I went to the doctor (I had tonsillitis and was very sick), I was able to see a brand new doctor (that had never seen me) that day. This was at a clinic too.

    Of course if a doctor was not making me happy about their treatment, I would start looking while I was healthy (which is what most people would be doing).
     
  19. iBlazed thread starter macrumors 68000

    iBlazed

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    #19
    I have appointment with a GI specialist tomorrow. Made the appointment 2 weeks ago. I'm a new patient. My primary care doctor? I can usually see him same day. Keep the lies coming.


    That article had nothing to do with the point you're trying to make here. Try reading your sources before posting them.

    But I thought you said it was a job killer, and DIDN'T back up that claim by the way. I actually give you a source and you move the goal posts? Nice try.

    Ok, now I really am convinced you're full of it. There are waiting lists to get into nursing programs across the nation. I doubt they're doing it for the crappy pay. :rolleyes:

    My nurse friends make bank. And mostly all of them support Obamacare, funny how that works.
     
  20. Eric-PTEK macrumors 6502

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    #20
    Seeing a new doctor at a place you already go is not the same as going to an entirely new practice.

    Since you say health clinic then I assume this is a walk in place which is designed around just that, walk in patients.

    I'm talking about seeing a GP and finding a regular doctor that you see over and over.
     
  21. Huntn macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #21
    Great link!

    The GOP is never wrong and never tries to manipulate the masses. :rolleyes:
     
  22. pdjudd macrumors 601

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    #22
    I had never been to that particular clinic before as far as I knew. It was also not a walk in.

    ETA: And if you are in healthy shape, any sort of a wait factor is not going to be a problem.
     
  23. Eric-PTEK macrumors 6502

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    #23
    So how do you define a clinic?
     
  24. iBlazed thread starter macrumors 68000

    iBlazed

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    #24
    Maybe if you live in a rural area, but that's always been a problem for them. I live in Jersey, there's a doctor on every frickin corner. They ALL take insurance. The situations you're describing are foreign to me.
     
  25. pdjudd macrumors 601

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    #25
    Well they called themselves a clinic for starters....
     

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