The Guts of a New Machine - An extensive article on the iPod...

Discussion in ' News Discussion' started by MacBytes, Nov 30, 2003.

  1. Blaaze macrumors regular

    Sep 20, 2003
  2. bensisko macrumors 65816

    Jul 24, 2002
    The Village

    I really don't think the iPod will slip to 3-5% of the market. None of the competators are that good. Not that I put much stock in anything to do with Real Networks anymore...
  3. Freg3000 macrumors 68000


    Sep 22, 2002
    New York
    3-5%. Eek. Hope not. Very nice and indepth article.
  4. MrMacMan macrumors 604


    Jul 4, 2001
    1 Block away from NYC.
    RealNetworks... why does that sound Familiar... oo, I know they compete with Quicktime!

    Duhh, thats why they think they have no chance.

    iPod will only have a chance if they lower prices, get a low end model (think 2-5 GB range) and keep up on new technology.

    Lets hope they can.
  5. gekko513 macrumors 603


    Oct 16, 2003
    I liked the article, and I think the ones who always ask for more features included in the iPod should read it and realise that the main reason for iPods success is the simple design.

    4th gen iPod:
    Bluetooth enabled ... not to sync music but for a bluetooth remote. The remote on the 3rd gen iPod is not very convenient. Of course this will also enable Keynote speakers to use the iPod (and/or the iPod remote) as a remote for a computer showing a Keynote-presentation.

    (This is not a rumor ... just me dreaming )
  6. gwuMACaddict macrumors 68040


    Apr 21, 2003
    washington dc
    awesome article, but i'm still confused about all the talk about the low end mp3 player. most people i know have music libraries in excess of 10 gigs... and people who really only want a few megabytes for jogging or exercising can buy one of those rio jogging something-or-others. that said, i WOULD like to see lower prices to compete with the new players from other companies.
  7. jwhitnah macrumors regular


    Aug 20, 2003
    Format and Price

    The 2 vulnerablities of the iPod are format and price. Lowering price would be good, but the increased sales, I think would be temporary. Selling (through iTMS) and allowing WMV format (er whatever it is) to work on iT4/iPod, WITH a low end/price iPod would shut down the competition. I'm not sure what Apple has to lose by allowing other formats except iTMS sales (to nutster and dull) which make no money anyway. Whatever sells iPods---in this case it is accessibility. This is part of the PC users turnoff with the Mac to begin with: "yeah but you can't do/get that on a Mac/iPod." I think that when people see the iPod and iTMS working with PCs, they unconciously think the Mac is also compatable with PC's. We already know this is true. The iTMS may be a Trojan horse for selling iPods, but the iPods boost Apples image, and probably sell Macs.
  8. johnnyjibbs macrumors 68030


    Sep 18, 2003
    London, UK
    Great article. I think Apple does have to be slightly careful about where they go regarding WMA. Personally I hate Windows Media Player and Microsoft's proprietry formats and am glad Apple has so far avoided it. In fact, it isn't Apple's style to support it.

    But in supporting WMA Apple would boost iPod sales. Although, having said that, let's remember that iPods still get sold here in Britain and elsewhere around the world and there is currently no music stores here. So people either use AAC (ripped from their iTunes library) or MP3.

    What I hate is how most companies (e.g. Dell, Napster) just go with WMA for everything. Even most websites only seem to support Win Media Player and RealOne Player for media content. Why doesn't anyone else embrace AAC?

    Why is it always Apple vs the world?
  9. themadchemist macrumors 68030


    Jan 31, 2003
    Chi Town
    a vibrant article...more than felt like it had a soul, like it was personable, and not another technophile's numbers break down. it was very "Apple," in that sense.

    a few lines I liked a lot:

    'You can think of innovation as a continuum, and this phase is one end of it. The dreams and experiments that happen outside of -- and in a state of indifference toward -- the marketplace. At the other end of the continuum are the fast followers, those who are very attuned to the marketplace, but are not particularly innovative. They let someone else do the risky business of wild leaps, then swoop in behind with an offering that funnels some aspect of the innovation into a more marketable (cheaper? watered down? easier to obtain?) package -- and dominates. Fairly or not, the shorthand version of this in the technology world would have at one end of the continuum Xerox PARC, the famous R&D lab where all manner of bleeding-edge innovations (including some of the ''look and feel'' of the Mac) were researched but never developed into marketable products. And at the other end you'd have companies like Microsoft and Dell.'

    '''Of course they do.'' I felt his annoyance shift elsewhere. ''And it's like . . . somebody who's not cool trying to be cool. It's painful to watch. You know what I mean?'' He looked at me for a while, and I started to think he was trying to tell me something. Then he said, ''It's like . . . watching Michael Dell try to dance.'' The P.R. minder guffawed. ''Painful,'' Jobs summarized.'

    and, of course,

    'Jobs shook his head. ''But then you meet the girl, and she says, 'Let me see what's on your iPod.' You pull out a tape player, and she walks away.'' This was an unanticipated, and surprisingly persuasive, response. That's thinking long-term, I said. ''No,'' said Steve Jobs. ''That's being an optimist.'''
  10. kennylucius macrumors newbie

    Nov 30, 2003
    Apple vs. the world

    Why is it always Apple vs. the world? In this case, it's because Apple is leading the world, and some very big companies want to tear Apple down.

    If the other online music sellers get really big, relegating iTMS to a very small market share, then Apple will enable WMA on iPod and iTunes to allow users with WMA files to play them on an iPod. I don't see any reason to change iTMS since it's only purpose is to promote iPod sales. (And to show them how it's done).
  11. gekko513 macrumors 603


    Oct 16, 2003
    Tono, which is some kind of head organization for the music business in Norway, has recently been involved in starting a norwegian online music store with most norwegian music.

    They only sell WMA music, and you even have to use IE to browse the web-site.

    I sent an e-mail and said that I liked the initiative, but that my iPod doesn't support WMA and I asked if they could sell in AAC format as well.

    I actually got a reply :) , but the spokesperson claimed that AAC did not have a degree of DRM that they, on behalf of the record companies, could accept. He also was of the opinion that the iPod would probably support WMA soon. :mad:

    I tried to convince him otherwise, but had no luck.
  12. Sherman macrumors regular

    Jul 23, 2002
    maybe one update they could do through software, would be to support ogg vorbis. I personally don't have any songs in this, in my opinion, quite wonderful format and iTunes doesn't rip into it, but it will play it with the proper quicktime codec installed.

    Hey, if they can put Linux on an iPod, I think apple could at least support some of the weird linux guys that really like the iPod and provide .ogg support. Remember, these are the guys that suggest gifts to friends and family and they have quite a lot of buying power.
  13. kennylucius macrumors newbie

    Nov 30, 2003
    Yeah, the people at Tonos are correct. AAC doesn't have DRM built-in like WMA does. You can license AAC, but then you have to create your own DRM system like Apple did, or license a DRM system from somewhere else. Fairplay is the only one I know of, and I hear that Apple isn't sharing it just yet.

    I think iPod will go WMA soon.
  14. rainman::|:| macrumors 603


    Feb 2, 2002
    Steve Jobs should not have an apostrophe after it in the front-page story. just thought i'd be a bitch and point that out.

    excellent story. unusual that the writer spent so much time recounting the interview itself, rather than what was said. must mean that apple is viewed with some curiousity... surely it's a treat for mac fans like us, to get that glimpse into the interview process...

  15. Gyroscope macrumors regular

    Apr 29, 2002
    This was very professional, well written article. I just wish that there is more articles like this, published on internet. Lately, I am really getting sick of crappy mindless articles published on internet. People who have no talent or knowledge write all sorts of "scheiss" pretending to be tech journalists, and very often it is also matter of blatant propaganda on someone's behalf. Feels like lot of companies are paying money to these quazi journalists to write favourable reviews about their products. Regarding comments given by RealNetworks CEO I do not think that he was absolutley right about everything that he said. Only danger for Apple's iPod could come from Microsoft, trying to push their own windows media file format in similiar way they did with IE during browser wars. Good news is that at least Europeans are sick of this behaviour and wont let them have it this time.

  16. Alex Wrege macrumors newbie

    Sep 9, 2003
    The iPod definitely has been a revolution in the market and is the one piece of technology that competitors try to recreate with their products.
    Like many of the users here I also believe that a low priced iPod would probably help to reach a larger base (students or the parents who buy one for their kids). I really hope that Apple will come up with a cheaper version to celebrate the 2 year anniversary.
    I guess the future will tell . . . .
  17. rainman::|:| macrumors 603


    Feb 2, 2002
    so the loss-leader iTMS will have been created to put music onto competitors players? i think not. besides the fact that encoding 300,000 songs in AAC is a major investment in the format's future with the company, the iPod is definitely the top of the pack in digital jukeboxes, and it doesn't make sense for apple to lose that leverage in promoting the iTMS, which will then lead to higher iPod sales. opening it to WMA only leads their whole system to break down, wasting a great deal of capital...

    so, i think the iPod will stay AAC until the next format comes along. then we'll see. but don't look for it in the next few years... once the color screen and other features go into future revisions of iPods, they'll continue to dominate the market just like they're beginning to do now.

  18. Macmaniac macrumors 68040


    A very well done article!
    I hope Apple can sell as many iPods as Sony sold walkmans.
    The guy from Real is really smoking something if he thinks the iPod will end up with a 3-5% market share.
    If Apple could only drop the price $50 on each model they would be in the sweetspot!
    50% market share would be in our grasp:)
  19. kansaigaijin macrumors 6502

    Jan 7, 2002
    the great ether
    lame article

    full of faint praise and FUD.

    the crap about slow to realize the potential od digital music?

    there were third party developers making encoders for the make, and you could install your own burner. besides that is just one way to enjoy mp3s.

    go back and read it again a little more critically.
  20. kennylucius macrumors newbie

    Nov 30, 2003

    PNW: There are three distinct products in play here. iPod, iTunes, and iTMS. You are correct in calling iTMS a loss leader, and it will probably never go WMA. iPod and iTunes, though, could support WMA without upsetting Apples plans at all. If iPod's market share begins to fall (even if sales are increasing), look for Apple to enable WMA playback.
  21. Mr.Hey macrumors 6502


    Jul 17, 2002
    That is the fate of the Alfa-Male.
  22. madamimadam macrumors 65816


    Jan 3, 2002
    I hate to sound the wanker but the iPod was released in October (as shown on Apple's Website) and it has been revised 3 times:

    Original 5GB
    Revision 1 = Original 5GB + 10GB and 15GB with touch scroll
    Revision 2 = 10GB, 15GB and 20GB (I think those are the right numbers)
    Revision 3 = 10GB, 20GB, 40GB
  23. MattG macrumors 68040


    May 27, 2003
    Fletcher, NC
    Right...kind of reminds me of the time when the CEO of said their music service would sell 10 million songs in the first week/month/whatever it was. :rolleyes:
  24. the_mole1314 macrumors 6502a

    Sep 16, 2003
    Akron, OH
    I think Apple will go WMA with iTunes, but not the iPod. I think we'll also see a WMA to AAC converter, which will also convert the DRM. I think that'll kill the market for Dell and Samsung.

    I loved the article, I think it's awsome and very well done, not a 'iPod is good, Dell is comming, here's what Microsoft says for the rest of the 50% of the article!' that has been happening recently.

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