The Harm of War- Bring Back The Draft

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Huntn, Jul 30, 2014.

  1. Huntn macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #1
    Heard this morning on the Diane Rehm Show (PBS) this morning during a discussion of portraying the face of war. It was mentioned that 22 soldiers commit suicide a day. Wow! (Reference Link).

    War harms everyone associated with it. It is one of the primary failures of the human race. One item mentioned on this show, is that during Vietnam, there where huge protests during the time when the U.S. had a draft and the general populace was affected. Now, unless you have a loved one who has volunteered, it's "them" that are dieing.

    The draft should be reinstated and mandatory service required IMO. Maybe more people would think about launching into foreign "adventures" when their children are being sent off to die for National Honor.
     
  2. jkcerda macrumors 6502a

    jkcerda

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    #2
    glad we can find common ground.
     
  3. quagmire macrumors 603

    quagmire

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    #3
    If the draft was brought back I am sure there would be a clause in there saying politicians kids are excepted from the draft/mandatory service.
     
  4. lannister80 macrumors 6502

    lannister80

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    #4
    Works for me!

    Maybe we can set the draft order by the average of 2 incomes: the income of the person eligible for the draft and the income of their parents. :)
     
  5. jkcerda macrumors 6502a

    jkcerda

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    #5
    all loopholes need to be closed, it should make no difference who you are related to or if you are in college, ALL go in. anyone "outside" the U.S for more than 2 years loses their citizenship :D
     
  6. lostngone macrumors 65816

    lostngone

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    #6
    As long as it includes both Men and Women in the mandatory service requirements. I would be okay with that.
     
  7. Huntn thread starter macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #7
    My vision would be for a minimal loophole draft- no exemption for college or famous parent status. :p
     
  8. G51989 macrumors 68030

    G51989

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    #8
    1: The military is already draining the taxpayer dry at current levels, your talking about expanding it even more? How the hell do we afford that?

    2: People don't make choices, corporate owners in DC make choices weather to go to war. Trust me, if there was mandatory service, Iraq would have still happened. The Political/Owners kids aren't going, they never have in any war and they never will, that won't change.

    The draft needs to be for if America is in actual danger, nothing else.
     
  9. Huntn thread starter macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #9
    Expanding? The services have a staffing requirement. A draft would replace volunteers. Any excess staffing could be provided by volunteers. We can debate staffing levels in another thread.

    A draft would involve more of the populace, more parents in the decision to go to war. You don't think so? I do.

    [​IMG]
     
  10. lannister80 macrumors 6502

    lannister80

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    #10
    But we already have enough volunteers to staff the armed forces. So when we have current volunteers + mandatory service people, we'll have too many.

    Unless we want to turn away volunteers in exchange for more mandatory service people (put a cap on volunteers).
     
  11. Huntn thread starter macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #11
    Exactly. Draft to provide the majority of rank and file military personnel, would displace volunteers. If you are truly patriotic, serving your country should be an honor. ;) A good way to draw in the general populace in these political decisions.
     
  12. localoid macrumors 68020

    localoid

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    #12
    Well, back when the draft was instituted during the American Civil War, men "of means" could avoid conscription simply taking advantage of that section of the Enrollment Act of 1863 that allowed draftees to pay $300 to a "substitute" who served for them. Not sure what $300 in 1863 dollars equals today -- probably a pretty hefty sum. But I'm sure any politician's son worth his salt could come up with the money to purchase an "alter ego" to serve on his behalf. :rolleyes:
     
  13. Mousse macrumors 68000

    Mousse

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    #13
    What's to keep the politicians from keeping their kids holed away in the rear echelons while the poor man's kids are sent to the front lines? For a fine example, look no further than Dubba Ya.

    That's why I have respect for guys like John McCain who spent several years in a Viet Cong POW camp. And to a lot lesser degree, JFK. At lease saw some action when his PT boat got sliced in half in WWII.
     
  14. Happybunny macrumors 68000

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    #14

    I sure that Southern Dad would argue that they just made the WRONG CHOICES.:(
     
  15. G51989 macrumors 68030

    G51989

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    #15
    I think not serving in the military does not make someone unpatriotic.

    [​IMG]
    The military is made up of well, a little over 2 million people.

    Where would we find room to draft tens of millions more?

    Also, wouldn't the military prefer an all volunteer force? Because they all want to be there?

    Also, if we are going to draft 10s of millions?

    Who is gonna pay for it?
     
  16. Huntn thread starter macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #16
    Answer: Removal of loopholes especially for politicians' children. If they think a cause is so honorable, let them sacrifice their children.

    I used to respect McCain until I realized his solution to most conflict is the military and war.
     
  17. zioxide macrumors 603

    zioxide

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    #17
    **** the draft. I would renounce my citizenship and move long before I ever joined our military. Our military are a bunch of pawns in the Dick Cheneys of the world's game of monopoly.

    We haven't fought a war about actual defense or freedom since WWII.. everything since has been created and manipulated to make more money for defense contractors. Eisenhower warned this country about the military industrial complex, but like just about everything, Americans are too ****ing stupid to listen or read a history book.

    War is for cowards.
     
  18. Huntn thread starter macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #18
    You mean like when Dick Cheney was asked about his lack of military service and he replied he had better things to do? There is no greater indicator of patriotism than National Service, putting your life on the line for your country.

    I all ready answered your questions in previous posts on staffing.

    ----------

    So do you have a solution for politicians who launch us into reckless foreign adventures? The issue is to demand responsibility from our leaders. My impression is that the GOP and conservatives in general tend to be hawks in service of contractors and corporations.
     
  19. G51989 macrumors 68030

    G51989

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    #19
    I think unless America is under direct threat from an enemy and the survival of the country is in question, we shouldn't have a draft.

    Plus how do you decide who is draftable? I would make a terrible solider and woulda got kicked out anyway, wasting taxpayer money.

    Also, I would maybe support the Draft if America had fought a defensive war since WW2, but it hasn't.
     
  20. Happybunny macrumors 68000

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    #20
    Would this US draft include females.

    If Ariana Grande wanted to avoid the draft, The Kingdom of the Netherlands would be only be to glad to give the Absolute Adorable Cutie a safe refuge.:p
     
  21. Huntn thread starter macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #21
    Absolutely, but keep in mind, the goal is to evoke responsibility in our leadership. The draft does not have to be the only solution, but until we can elect responsible leadership...
     
  22. zioxide macrumors 603

    zioxide

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    #22
    If they're putting their pocket book over the country they are supposed to serve and starting wars/military action because they make money from the military industrial complex, we should put them on trial for treason and hang them on the national mall in Washington.

    Step one is to make lobbying, anything related to lobbying, and any use of private money in an election a felony punishable by 20 years in prison.
     
  23. Huntn thread starter macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #23
    You probably know the background. A BS war, never ending deployments, citizens coming home in caskets, even more coming home disfigured and mentally I'll, and the biggest issue is for what exactly? Get our citizens involved, especially share the pain across the general populace, not just a small segment of volunteers.

    My definition of BS: war for profit; trumped up reasons; meddling in foreign affairs; bankrupting the Nation for zero return, thinking war is the solution, when in actuality we'd have to kill most of them or occupy them indefinitely to get them to think like us. It's a zero sum game that is ruining us.
     
  24. zioxide macrumors 603

    zioxide

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    #24
    This won't do anything. The citizens don't have any power in this situation. It's all up to the politicans who are bought and paid for by the military industrial complex. The last thing we need to do is give them more cannon fodder.

    What we really need to do is start cutting the size of our military. Turn it into a defensive force and not the current world police military industrial complex revenue generation force.

    Welcome to the corporatocracy. The military industrial complex isn't the only thing that's ruining us, but it's one of the main things. The people in charge are completely okay with destroying this country and everything it's ever stood for as long as they're living in their ritzy mansions.
     
  25. skottichan macrumors 6502a

    skottichan

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    #25
    Y'know, what makes me kinda laugh in an ironic way. The whole, "Mandatory service or lose your citizenship" spiel, kinda reminds me fondly of the fascism of;
     

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