The Hill

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by yaxomoxay, Nov 7, 2016.

  1. yaxomoxay macrumors 68000

    yaxomoxay

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    #1
    "Hillary Clinton is campaigning on the creation of no-fly zones in Syria, one of the few big breaks she has made from President Obama while campaigning for the White House."
    http://thehill.com/policy/defense/304312-clintons-big-difference-with-obama


    So, no-fly zone means boots on the ground (outside of Syria) to support it.
    But the real question is: Syria's weak aviation is helped by Russia's. Syria is the sovereign country. What happens if a Russian aircraft enters into the no-fly zone decided by a foreign country with no legal rights to be there?
     
  2. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #2
    That is why no-fly zones only work as a UN thing.
     
  3. DrewDaHilp1 macrumors 6502a

    DrewDaHilp1

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    #3
    LOL UN and works used together in a sentence, one that didn't include doesn't. A serious one at that.
     
  4. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #4
    Without a UN agreement, any no-fly zone would be an instant disaster.
     
  5. yaxomoxay thread starter macrumors 68000

    yaxomoxay

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    #5
    I can't say that it would "work" with the blessing of the UN (which is impossible given Russia's position), but it certainly is the minimum requirement to even begin to implement it.
     
  6. lowendlinux Contributor

    lowendlinux

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    #6
    It means that HRC is telling people to get ready for at a minimum of a proxy war with Russia. This is neither confusing nor out of left field for her
     
  7. DrewDaHilp1 macrumors 6502a

    DrewDaHilp1

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    #7
    What would be the host Country for the aircraft? The near by options would be Turkey(not going to happen with Ergodan), Iraq is highly doubtful not to mention not very secure. Israel yeah that's a big fat "Zionist"/(sarcasm) no. So that leaves the US Airbase out of Vicenza and Air Refueling over the Med. That won't be expensive at all.
     
  8. yaxomoxay thread starter macrumors 68000

    yaxomoxay

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    #8
    Don't forget Jordan which is almost at war with Syria already.
    Oh dude, as soon as the first Russian aircraft is met by a US plane, Turkey will try to reach Aleppo (and possibly Mosul, but this is not likely for now).
     
  9. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #9
    Theres always RAF Akrotiri, but I'm not sure we'd be happy with your using that to start World War III.
     
  10. lowendlinux Contributor

    lowendlinux

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    #10
    So Incirlik closed and Turkey doesn't want to be part of the EU?
     
  11. yaxomoxay thread starter macrumors 68000

    yaxomoxay

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    #11
    Erdogan doesn't want the EU anymore. After 7/15 he will rule the country in a way that is not really liked in the West. I mean, he's doing that already.
     
  12. DrewDaHilp1 macrumors 6502a

    DrewDaHilp1

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    #12
    Ah yeah I did leave out Jordan, but even that isn't secure too much right now, we just lost 3 Service members there.
     
  13. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #13
    Turkey would demand too high a price.
     
  14. yaxomoxay thread starter macrumors 68000

    yaxomoxay

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    #14
    Oh absolutely. That's why I have been saying for months that if we take action there, any action other than sending a few $$$ and weapons to some rebels, it will be a complete mess that will suck in the entire region.
     
  15. lowendlinux Contributor

    lowendlinux

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    #15
    If he doesn't move toward EU membership he will be ousted and he knows that. They're not call young Turks for no reason.
     
  16. zin macrumors 6502

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    #16
    In a speech to Goldman Sachs, Hillary Clinton said a no-fly zone would "kill a lot of Syrians". The woman just cannot stop herself. Her foreign policy is more hawkish than Bush. Her last "no-fly zone" project in Libya became part of the fighting force for literal terrorists (so-called 'moderates', in the words of Hillary).

    Anybody who believes this woman has any ounce of good judgement is delusional. Everything she touches turns to rubble.
     
  17. yaxomoxay thread starter macrumors 68000

    yaxomoxay

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    #17
    He's not an idiot. He's out of the EU already. Now he can do what was his calling since the beginning: take back what was Turkey's before. It all starts with Aleppo and Mosul, I repeat.
     
  18. lowendlinux Contributor

    lowendlinux

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    #18
    We can exert enough political pressure on the greater EU for that price to be negligible. Turkey already has a brain drain problem it'd get worse defying the US in this matter.
    --- Post Merged, Nov 7, 2016 ---
    Actually he's an idiot if he thinks there is any remnant of the ottoman empire left even on his immediate southern border the man can't keep his own people happy let alone motivate them to expedition
     
  19. yaxomoxay thread starter macrumors 68000

    yaxomoxay

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    #19
    It's not what he thinks. It's what history demands of him. He's not trying to re-create the ottoman empire (he ain't that stupid!), he just wants back what he thinks should belong to Turkey. Why do you think that a week ago Turkey got really pissed off about Mosul's operations?
    And for a people that used to be one of the largest empires in the world, there's nothing that motivates more than getting back some slice of the old empire.
    If he wanted to join the EU he wouldn't do the purge that he's doing now, and certainly he wouldn't discriminate so strongly against the Alevis as he's doing now.
     
  20. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #20
    His new BFF Vlad might have a thing or two to say about cooperating with the Americans too readily, and anyway, his price would be further involvement in both Iraq and Syria.
     
  21. lowendlinux Contributor

    lowendlinux

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    #21
    We're seeing some of that with Russia now but the people like Putin the people aren't fans of Erdogan. If Erdogan was charismatic I'd be a bit worried but he's not so I'm not. We'd fly planes out of Incirlik and he'd like it and support it.
     
  22. yaxomoxay thread starter macrumors 68000

    yaxomoxay

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    #22
    Sure, especially if you consider how much he loves Gulen that we currently protect. No, our last chance to have Turkey on "our side" was before the 2013 elections, when he saw that his power was getting hit under his feet. Unfortunately after he did all the reforms the EU requested, the EU stalled, and now we see the consequences.
    You say he's not charismatic as Putin (by the way, do you remember that the two just met?), but he's the one that was able to bring thousands to the streets via recorded Facetime.
    I think you're wildly underestimating Turkey, its history, and its current leader.
     
  23. twietee macrumors 603

    twietee

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    #23
    can you give a source re requested reforms and the statement Turkey fulfilled all (!) of them, please.

    Are you talking eu-membership here? because I've read different . Very different.
     
  24. lowendlinux Contributor

    lowendlinux

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    #24
    Erdogan has no choices..that's the part you're missing he can either get on board with us or he can face his next coup against US weapons. Again Erdogan has no choice he's made himself nothing more than a pawn in a geopolitical game.
     
  25. yaxomoxay thread starter macrumors 68000

    yaxomoxay

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    #25
    Certainly. The 35 reforms/steps and their current status according to the EU:

    1. Free Movement of Goods - Good level of preparation
    2. Freedom of Movement For Workers - Early stage
    3. Right of Establishment For Companies & Freedom To Provide Services - Early stage
    4. Free Movement of Capital - Moderately prepared
    5. Public Procurement - Moderately prepared
    6. Company Law - Well advanced
    7. Intellectual Property Law - Good level of preparation
    8. Competition Policy - Moderately prepared
    9. Financial Services - Good level of preparation
    10. Information Society & Media - Moderately prepared
    11. Agriculture & Rural Development - Some level of preparation
    12. Food Safety, Veterinary & Phytosanitary Policy - Some level of preparation
    13. Fisheries - Early stage
    14. Transport Policy- Moderately prepared
    15. Energy - Moderately prepared
    16. Taxation - Moderately prepared
    17. Economic & Monetary - Policy Moderately prepared
    18. Statistics- Moderately prepared
    19. Social Policy & Employment - Moderately prepared
    20. Enterprise & Industrial Policy - Good level of preparation
    21. Trans-European Networks - Well advanced
    22. Regional Policy & Coordination of Structural Instruments - Moderately prepared
    23. Judiciary & Fundamental Rights - Some level of preparation
    24. Justice, Freedom & Security - Moderately prepared
    25. Science & Research - Well advanced
    26. Education & Culture - Moderately prepared
    27. Environment and Climate - Change Moderately prepared
    28. Consumer & Health Protection- Good level of preparation
    29. Customs Union - Good level of preparation
    30. External Relations - Well advanced
    31. Foreign, Security & Defence Policy - Moderately prepared
    32. Financial Control - Good level of preparation
    33. Financial & Budgetary Provisions - Early stage
    34. Institutions - Nothing to adopt
    35. Other Issues - Nothing to adopt
    --- Post Merged, Nov 7, 2016 ---
    Again, you underestimate him and Turkey quite much. I certainly can't convince you otherwise.
     

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