The Holocaust

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by likemyorbs, Sep 17, 2010.

  1. likemyorbs macrumors 68000

    likemyorbs

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2008
    Location:
    NJ
    #1
    Lately the topic has been coming up a lot in my life (mainly at college). i try not to spend too much time thinking about it but sometimes its hard not to, especially when accidentally flicking through channels and coming across a holocaust movie. my question to you guys is, how do you wrap your heads around it? for the life of me, i cant understand how humanity ever got to that level of evil. it was way beyond just killing, it was humiliation and sadistic torture of millions of people, im talking about using babies as target practice here. I cant understand how a civilization of people that contributed so much to western culture with some of the best artists and composers in history, let that happen. I especially want to hear the opinions of Germans on this forum, how do you cope with your nations past and how is it approached in schools there? i keep trying to think about it, but the topic keeps coming up and i decided to post this thread after reading the thread about the pope comparing nazis to atheists. so how do you guys wrap your heads around it, how the hell did it happen? And do you think it can happen again in a civilized nation today? (not talking about africa, i know genocide still occurs daily there) Why or why not?
     
  2. dukebound85 macrumors P6

    dukebound85

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2005
    Location:
    5045 feet above sea level
    #2
    did?
    it still goes on in the world as you have pointed out

    and it will happen in the future
     
  3. likemyorbs thread starter macrumors 68000

    likemyorbs

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2008
    Location:
    NJ
    #3
    maybe you got to this thread before i edited it, but i wrote "not counting africa". im talking about the civilized world here. germans werent tribal barbarians before ww2
     
  4. lewis82 macrumors 68000

    lewis82

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2009
    Location:
    Totalitarian Republic of Northlandia
    #4
    Have you watched the movie "Die Welle"? Try to find it if you haven't. It explains very well how such things can happen.
     
  5. likemyorbs thread starter macrumors 68000

    likemyorbs

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2008
    Location:
    NJ
    #5
    I have not. Unfortunately i get very easily depressed by movies related to this topic, and i do by best to avoid them. its just too devastating. I vowed never to watch another holocaust movie again after "the pianist"
     
  6. Tomorrow macrumors 604

    Tomorrow

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2008
    Location:
    Always a day away
    #6
    For the record, I'm neither German nor Jewish.

    I don't know that you can say "humanity" got to that level of evil; you say that as though all, or most, of humanity went along with it and/or agreed with it. The holocaust was perpetrated by a very small group of people when compared to "humanity." I think the characterization is a bit unfair.

    Same goes for "civilization." I'm far from an expert, but my understanding is that the Nazis in control at the time of the holocaust were not universally supported even by their own country.

    Others, please correct me if I'm wrong on this.
     
  7. lbro macrumors 6502a

    lbro

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2009
    #7
    My thoughts:
    Germany was hit hard by the Great Depression and people were looking for someone to blame. Adolf Hitler was unbelievably good at making a crowd go wild by his speaking, and he managed to make (and succeeded in making) the people believe that the Jews and other groups were responsible for the country's state. Also, you have to keep in mind that not everybody knew what was going on inside the concentration camps and not everybody agreed with Hitler. They would have been silenced by fear. Germany was one of the most civilized countries in the world at that time, which shows that this can happen to anybody.
     
  8. likemyorbs thread starter macrumors 68000

    likemyorbs

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2008
    Location:
    NJ
    #8
    You're absolutely correct, but at the same time, european non jews didnt exactly do their best to stop the atrocities, many just stood by and watched and laughed as old people were forced to clean cobblestone streets on their knees in Warsaw
     
  9. lbro macrumors 6502a

    lbro

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2009
    #9
    I think Hitler was voted into power when he managed to convince people that he was going to turn the country around, and he later took total command over the whole country.
     
  10. sushi Moderator emeritus

    sushi

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2002
    Location:
    キャンプスワ&#
    #10
    I was exposed to the holicost at an early age. My uncles serve in WWII and some had seen first hand what happened.

    It's really hard to comprehend the extent of what happened.

    To add, if you look at the other side of the world, you can learn about Unit 731. and other similar organizations that operated in Japan and China during WWII. Warning, not for the faint of heart.
     
  11. lbro macrumors 6502a

    lbro

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2009
    #11
    Thats because they believed they were the cause of so many of the world's problems.
     
  12. citizenzen macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2010
    #12
    Wow.

    You might want to consider rephrasing statements like the one above.

    It makes you sound like a racist douche.
     
  13. lewis82 macrumors 68000

    lewis82

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2009
    Location:
    Totalitarian Republic of Northlandia
    #13
    It doesn't talk a single bit about the Holocaust. A few words about the third Reich, but that's all.

    It's a movie set in modern times, but it definitely shows how powerful can groups and patriotism / feeling of being a part of something be.
     
  14. lbro macrumors 6502a

    lbro

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2009
    #14
    Definitely, I agree, thats not for the faint at heart. It's unbelievable that people could be so cruel as to perform those types of experiments. There isn't even a word out there that could possibly describe how horrible that is.
     
  15. likemyorbs thread starter macrumors 68000

    likemyorbs

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2008
    Location:
    NJ
    #15
    Not really. It's true and it has nothing to do with race. If Africa were populated by white people and europe were populated by blacks, they would be the same. (except blacks would have been the ones claiming to be the superior race for centuries). Africa is uncivilized, if that sounds racist to you thats your own problem, but its got nothing to do with race. there are many logical non racial reasons as to why africa is the way it is. if i said europe was a ***hole, would that make me racist against whites? didnt think so.
     
  16. juanster macrumors 68020

    juanster

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2007
    Location:
    toronto
    #16
    My coworker is German, and to this day he still stands saying that there never was a holocaust. When I first heard about it I couldn't believe it. Don;t want to get into it. But just thought I would bring it up.

    There are lots of people like him too apparently. He is the only one I have ever met.
     
  17. likemyorbs thread starter macrumors 68000

    likemyorbs

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2008
    Location:
    NJ
    #17
    Maybe he just doesnt want to believe that germans would have done this. some people deny because the truth is too painful
     
  18. citizenzen macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2010
    #18
    Well I guess it's my problem then.

    I just wouldn't repeat that statement so casually if I were you.

    Sooner or later you'll regret it.


    Oh... and before I forget...

    One reason the Holocaust happened...

    People undervalued the humanity of others.


    You probably don't get the irony though.
     
  19. lewis82 macrumors 68000

    lewis82

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2009
    Location:
    Totalitarian Republic of Northlandia
    #19
    In Germany, Austria, Switzerland and many other European countries, publishing anything that denies the Holocaust is a very grave offense that can send you in jail. Even speaking about it in public (in the sense of talking to an audience) is forbidden.
     
  20. likemyorbs thread starter macrumors 68000

    likemyorbs

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2008
    Location:
    NJ
    #20
    Yeah, i get the irony. You think i undervalue the humanity of africans because most of their continent is uncivilized. Thats simply not the case, im just saying i understand how genocide is more capable of occurring in a place like that, rather than a civilized nation with an infrastructure and filled with educated people. I didnt say anything about black people, but the fact is that africa is an impoverished continent and much of it is very uncivilized and dangerous. Just because it happens to be predominantly black, that doesn't make me a racist. Again, if you want to look for racism where it doesnt exist, your problem. And the first part of your statement is too dumb to gratify with a response, so i wont. :)
     
  21. likemyorbs thread starter macrumors 68000

    likemyorbs

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2008
    Location:
    NJ
    #21
    Hm, in that case ill definitely look into it.
     
  22. flopticalcube macrumors G4

    flopticalcube

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2006
    Location:
    In the velcro closure of America's Hat
    #22
    Indeed. By making Jews, homosexuals, slavs, atheists, and any other number of people to be less than human (read: civilized), they Nazis convinced an entire nation to turn a blnd eye if not contribute to the slaughter. How can a man machine gun a baby? If he believes its not human then anything is possible. Its only a slight step forward from the way many slaves were treated in the US in the late 18th and early 19th century... and you call the Africans uncivilized. :rolleyes:
     
  23. sushi Moderator emeritus

    sushi

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2002
    Location:
    キャンプスワ&#
    #23
    What do the German textbooks say in regards to WWII and the Holocaust?

    I know here in Japan, it's basically, WWII happened, we lost, next. There really isn't much published about WWII here.
     
  24. likemyorbs thread starter macrumors 68000

    likemyorbs

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2008
    Location:
    NJ
    #24
    I would hope the German textbooks are a little more detailed than that. But i have heard that for about 15 years after the war it was practically a taboo topic in germany.
     
  25. citizenzen macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2010
    #25
    Really?

    At my workplace, saying something like "Africa is uncivilized" could earn you a trip to HR.

    But why stifle yourself?

    Just say whatever you want... and see how it works out for you.
     

Share This Page