The hypocrisy about freedom.

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by TechGod, Mar 27, 2014.

  1. TechGod macrumors 68040

    TechGod

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    #1
    We have liberationists here(I also consider myself one) where we debate and demand for gay rights which I am a supporter of, we talk about women getting equal rights as well and to top it off we have black rights and all of this agree with strongly every single person in the world deserves their fundamental rights as a human but then why, suddenly religious people attacked?

    The recent thread "Prove to me god exists" was rather shocking. Just from the title you would think the OP didn't want to have a discussion and he simply wanted to aggravate the religious people but the early replies from some people were hardly angry and they answered the question truthfully and many seemed like people that did not interpret the bible at face value- yet the OP started attacking them for no proof.

    The lack of no proof isn't the point here but the point being why people can fight for rights for everyone then make fun of and attack people that hold faith and aren't forcing us to have faith? This is pure hypocrisy from people that demand equal rights from everyone.
     
  2. mrkramer macrumors 603

    mrkramer

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    #2
    I think it is mostly because people only want rights for things that they agree with.
     
  3. TechGod thread starter macrumors 68040

    TechGod

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    #3
    No one here seems to want equal rights for everyone. The people that take the bible literally? They are wrong. They will not get their desire to treat gay people like ****. Faith holders that do not pressurise anyone and mind their own business? Absolutely should be left alone.
     
  4. Moyank24 macrumors 601

    Moyank24

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    #4
    While I agree that there are some people here who are passionate about "hating" religion, I don't really see the connection to equal rights.

    Where are the examples of those who are against religion fighting to take away the right to practice religion or to believe in God? In my experience (I consider myself extremely politically active, especially where LGBT rights are concerned), and there is plenty of legislation to prove it, it's the religious who fight to take away the rights of those they disagree with. And this is one of the reasons why people feel so strongly about religion being a bad thing.

    I may not agree with those who feel strongly about religion, but I would never, ever advocate taking away someone's right to worship.

    ----------

    I haven't read that thread, but are there people in it advocating taking away the right to practice religion?
     
  5. mrkramer macrumors 603

    mrkramer

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    #5
    I'm guessing this is going to go into another attack so I'm done with this thread after this post, but the problem comes about when one person's rights conflict with another persons. Since you brought up gay rights you can see that in things like wedding photographers being sued because they don't want to participate in a gay wedding. Personally I have no problem with gay marriage as long as I'm not forced to participate in it, and I voted against prop 8. However I do have a problem with gays trying to sue to force people who want to just mind their own business to become involved in things that they aren't comfortable with, along with vandalism of churches, mostly in the wake of prop 8 passing, but I've seen it elsewhere as well.
     
  6. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    #6
    Mmmaybe.

    But I think the reason is that there's a long history of people trying to assert their religion into the laws, upon society and into other people's lives.

    If they were just content to believe in their faith and to keep it within their own head and within the church and congregation, then there'd be far less animosity toward religion.

    When that faith is extended into our laws and courts, then that becomes an area of contention.

    And I say that as a religious—Buddhist—man.
     
  7. Moyank24 macrumors 601

    Moyank24

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    #7
    I'm not sure why you continue to ignore the fact that many, if not all, of those examples stemmed from violations of anti-discrimination laws. And the fact that people who operate public businesses have to follow certain rules and laws. Or do you believe that business owners who may be "uncomfortable" don't have to abide by the law? Creating a bit of a legal slippery slope, don't you think? There's a reason anti-discrimination laws are in place, and if someone feels like they may have a conflict with them, opening up a public business probably isn't a good idea.

    Stop posting if you're going to dodge every rational response to your ridiculous examples. I guess, though, it's easier to ignore than to admit that maybe you're wrong....
     
  8. TechGod thread starter macrumors 68040

    TechGod

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    #8
    Yes certain people are indirectly attacking the religious people for no reason. I also unfortunately saw this a lot while visiting America.
     
  9. Moyank24, Mar 27, 2014
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2014

    Moyank24 macrumors 601

    Moyank24

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    #9
    What do you mean by "indirectly attacking"? And how does that translate into anything to do with equal rights?

    Also, it's fairly obvious you didn't spend a lot of time here - people have plenty of reasons for their dislike of religion....Especially with regard to LGBT rights.

    I think you may be confusing intolerance for advocating taking rights away. While there are many here (and in the real world) who are intolerant of religion and those who practice it, it certainly hasn't led to a movement where the right to practice religion is in jeopardy.

    Using LGBT rights as an example - there certainly is a large amount of intolerance in our community for some religions, where are the LGBT lawmakers advocating taking away the right to practice those religions? Conversely we can give numerous examples of the religious advocating for and passing laws that take our rights away.

    It's one thing to disagree. It's another to take the rights away from those you disagree with.
     
  10. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    #10
    I wondered what he meant by "no reason".

    There's plenty of reasons to be resentful of religion.

    It intrudes into our lives constantly.
     
  11. iBlazed macrumors 68000

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    #11
    Where did you visit? The majority of Americans consider themselves religious so it's hard to imagine that you would have witnessed discrimination against religious people in the US.
     
  12. TechGod thread starter macrumors 68040

    TechGod

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    #12
    Sorry about my lack of context. I visited Michigan, someone with the bible was told to hide it because it might influence their child. I'm not lying I actually witnessed this at a Kroger's, there were a few other incidents that I saw like that.
     
  13. iBlazed macrumors 68000

    iBlazed

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    #13
    What do you mean "someone with a bible"? Was he harassing people outside of krogers trying to evangelize and convert them? Jehovahs often do that...

    Can't blame a parent for not wanting such a violent book read out loud around their child.
     
  14. TechGod thread starter macrumors 68040

    TechGod

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    #14
    I think I am as well. I tend to assume a bit too much sometimes. Please don't take this as me defending people that use religion as a hate machine, I'm just having difficulty expressing my point, sorry,

    ----------

    At the particular time he was just standing there, he had it closed but yes that is possible he was being like a " door man Christian" (we used to get them earlier on in my country)
     
  15. iBlazed macrumors 68000

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    #15
    If he was being a door man Christian then he shouldn't have been surprised by the response of that parent. Most Americans don't take kindly to attempted religious indoctrination, especially the door man type.

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    So you see, the guy with the bible wasn't being discriminated, he was being obnoxious and making people uncomfortable. Discrimination would have been to pass laws against religious propaganda in public. Just like asking a couple to stop making out obnoxiously in front of krogers would not be discrimination, but trying to ban that couple from getting married is discrimination.
     
  16. ElectronGuru, Mar 27, 2014
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2014

    ElectronGuru macrumors 65816

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    #16
    If Im understanding the concerns of the OP, this seems to be the problem. Americans tend to prefer a 'ill mind my business and you mind yours' approach. So we tend to get in the face of people and groups who don't follow this principal. But religious groups are standing up to intrude on others and then complaining when others give them heat about it. Where we get into trouble is painting with a broad brush - when religious groups that don't intrude on others and aren't making political moves get reprimanded along with those who do.
     
  17. TechGod thread starter macrumors 68040

    TechGod

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    #17
    Thank you. You were able to interpret what I meant. The people that don't do any thing either are clumped with the vocal religious people.

    This could also be a culture thing as well. In my country things are often interpreted to be deeper then what they should he taken at. Some statements made by Americans could just be taken as disagreement but we would take it at more then face value and assume they mean far more then what they were meant to be taken as.

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    The thing is. I don't know what he was doing before. He was at the time inside Kroger's getting items with a bible in his hand, could it be that he was pestering people before and the parent noticed? Yes but that's a major assumption.
     
  18. Don't panic macrumors 603

    Don't panic

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    #18
    there is an intrinsic issue with any multi-cultural or multi-religious society.
    when a religion/culture mandates or even just suggests social behaviors, from evangelization to nutritional codes, with everything in between, clashes become unavoidable.
    some are easy to resolve or harmonize, some are not.
     
  19. ElectronGuru macrumors 65816

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    #19
    This is rather of the definition of discrimination, treating members of a group as though they behave like other members of the same group. So, 1) is it the responsibility of those using religion as a political tool to stop, 2) is it the responsibility of those working to correct this behavior to stop and ask every religious person if they are political, 3) is it the responsibility of non political religious people to stop the political religious people or 4) is it the responsibility of non political religious people to self identify as non political so others can tell them apart?
     
  20. TechGod thread starter macrumors 68040

    TechGod

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    I think 1 but it is the least likely of the options.
     
  21. LIVEFRMNYC macrumors 603

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    #21
    I think it's the religious that are hypocrites from many angles.

    For example:

    A Christian can tell me, I'm going to burn in eternal hell and I'm not worthy of heaven until I accept Jesus in my life. That's not a very pleasant thing to say to those who don't believe in Christianity.

    Now why can't those same Christians accept the fact that other people believe their religion is a fraud?

    You should be able to take what you dish out.


    Another example:

    If people were true to their own religion ......... crime, scams, violence, greed, and etc: would be at an all time low. How do you expect non believers to respect religion when religious themselves don't seem to respect religion due to their own actions?
     
  22. jnpy!$4g3cwk macrumors 65816

    jnpy!$4g3cwk

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    #22
    Hey, I don't know which country you are from, or, what the customs would be in such as situation, but, in the U.S., certain groups hang around and harass people. The fact that he was waving a bible doesn't make it OK for him to be rude ...
     
  23. TechGod thread starter macrumors 68040

    TechGod

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    #23
    I didn't say all religious people are nice point blank. I said that some are targeted despite not even taking part in the anti gay protests and such. I'm saying not everyone should be thrown in with everyone due to mist religious people doing it.
     
  24. ElectronGuru macrumors 65816

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    #24
    I think you're right. This isn't going away until religion stops being a useful political tool.
     
  25. TechGod thread starter macrumors 68040

    TechGod

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    #25
    He wasn't waving it around. HE HAD IT IN HIS BLOODY HAND AS HE WAS BROWSING THINGS IN THE STORE.
     

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