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Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by rdowns, Dec 15, 2010.
A very, very good read. Read it all.
What the hell? What do we need to do to get this guy out, get him a lawyer and give him his day in court?
What did he (or anyone else) expect would happen when he committed treason? The brig is better than the firing squad he deserves.
Do you have any evidence that he committed treason to make such an accusation?
what crimes has he been convicted of? oh, right. none.
well he did comment treason. My question is what does the UMJ say on it. Remember UMJ rules and regulation are very different from our civilian version of it.
Also he could not safely be kept with other inmates. Many of which would try to kill him for commenting treason.
I read in the link that he was accused, but not convicted
Where is the evidence he committed treason?
Is there a link to additional information?
Fixed that for you...
It's a bit ridiculous that he's being treated like this... Apparently our own aren't subject to our laws now?
Here's his charge sheet.
Here's the chat transcripts with a Wired article.
You tell me.
Exactly, people seem to find it convenient to forget that military law is different from civilian law.
What about innocent until proven guilty?
And what about the fact that the guy who leaked the Pentagon papers walked free?
my understanding is Manning is the one who provided a good junk of the info to wiki leaks (treason).
Now I am more suprised they have not had the trial. Now that trail would be kept out of the public eye and subject to the UMJ.
If this is with in the guide lines of the UMJ then is is more of a problem with the UMJ than anything else.
Regardless, he hasn't been convicted, so why the torture?
Charged ≠ guilty. Does anyone remember Lt. Pantano?
He is innocent until proven guilty, even in a court martial.
That is my understanding as well, and if/when there is a trial and evidence is presented, then if he is found guilty I'll be happy to accept that he is a traitor to the US.
No matter how damning the evidence may look, without due process, whether through the UMJ or not, I can't say he committed treason. He is accused of it, and may be guilty of it, but I am not in a position to say. And a few things posted on the 'net wouldn't be enough for me to put anyone on the firing squad. I would let due process take its course and trust those in charge to sort out the truth.
Regardless if he's guilty torture would still be cruel and unusual, and therefore I believe unconstitutional.
Treason is a relative term. If he was acting, for the purposes of argument, from a deeply-held conviction that it was his duty to expose secret ground wars entered into without due authorisation, would that be treason? I have asked before, but nobody seems willing to share their thoughts.
He's not being tortured. Everything he has been 'subjected' to is perfectly within the letter of the UCMJ.
Try to remember we're talking about military law, not civilian law.
Yes, it would still be treason. He willingly joined an organization (the US Army). As I've said before, and you agreed with, the things that were going on in Iraq/ Afghanistan/ the world in 2006, when he joined the US Army, were not exactly a secret.
I think that is up to the judge/jury to make the distinction.
Would he have been able to testify in his own defense? Because it seems that they have been through a brain-washing process long enough now that he would have to be found mentally able to participate and accurately recall the events.
My point exactly: therefore the accused should not be treated as guilty by default.
Has he given away information of troop movements?
Has he caused the death of even one soldier in the field?
I think not.
Has he embarrassed those that now incarcerate him?
Is this another Tian'anmen Square all over again, but without tanks??
The results of his actions don't matter. If I run a stop sign and get caught, I get a ticket, whether I caused an accident or not.
I believe the way he is being treated is horrible, but none of us can possibly know all the facts. I hope justice is served.
Can you quote where this is outlined in the UCMJ?
I doubt those are the only criteria for judging whether an act is treason
And to compare his incarceration, no matter how inhumane, to Tian'anmen Square does a grave disservice to those who died there