The Left Chose Islam...

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by maxsix, Jun 12, 2016.

  1. maxsix Suspended

    maxsix

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  2. jkcerda macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

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  3. steve knight Suspended

    steve knight

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    #3
    They burned you enough times you learned I am proud of you.
     
  4. Moyank24 macrumors 601

    Moyank24

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    #4
    Please explain how, even if the left had come out strong against Islam, and used the words "muslim extremist" in press conferences, what happened last night would have been prevented. How would it have been different?

    As a gay person, I absolutely agree that how Muslims around the world treat my "community" is despicable. And I wish that we could do something about it. But how? With words? With a war? They hate us and we hate them. What does that do? This isn't just about semantics. I mean, we're struggling with how our OWN country treats our community.

    So many of the same politicians who have been trying to deny our rights for years offered "thoughts and prayers" tonight. NOW they're concerned about us? All of a sudden the enemy of their enemy is their friend. It rings extremely hollow.

    Building a wall, or banning Muslims from entering the US wouldn't have done a damned thing in this case. An American, born and bred, with legally purchased weapons. He was investigated multiple times by the FBI. Are you blaming their lack of action on the left? On Obama?
     
  5. APlotdevice macrumors 68040

    APlotdevice

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    #5
    1.6 billion. ONE-POINT-SIX BILLION. That is how many Muslims are on this Earth. If every single one of them was truly out to get you, as many far right nutters seem to believe, YOU WOULD BE DEAD!
     
  6. ThisBougieLife macrumors 65816

    ThisBougieLife

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    #6
    Agreed. It's amazing the kind of ridiculous hyperbole that passes for "news" on sites like Breitbart.

    There's no denying that violent Muslims are particularly active right now, but this is not something we need to pin on the billion+ people who follow this religion. Islam is relatively peaceful in places like Indonesia, Oman, Malaysia, and others. The Middle East's violence often has more to do with politics and ethnic tensions than it does with the religion alone.

    And the shooting in Orlando did not happen because "the Left chose Islam", but sure, let's place blame on the boogeyman of liberal politics. If anything, the Right's rhetoric is only going to fuel more anti-Western sentiment and support ISIS propaganda--the people who recruit look for Muslims who feel rejected and alienated by their society and government. Trump and his BS will only make things worse.
     
  7. DUCKofD3ATH Suspended

    DUCKofD3ATH

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    #7
    It doesn't have to be "every single one of them" for it to be prudent to defend ourselves against the Islamic extremists. Said extremists include 40% of the Palestinian territories, 39% of Afghanistan, 29% of Egypt, and 26% of Bangladesh Muslims who think that suicide bombings and other forms of violence against civilians in the name of Islam are at least sometimes justified.
    --- Post Merged, Jun 12, 2016 ---
    Obama blamed America and our gun-loving culture more than he blamed radical Islam. We at least have more justification because Mateen was a registered Democrat. Evidently he likes the cut of their jib.
     
  8. SHNXX macrumors 68000

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    #8
    According to Pew polls, a very very significant number of these 1.6 billion Muslims want Sharia law, which includes niceties like death as punishment for homosexuality and apostasy.

    143 million - More than 50% of Indonesians support strict Sharia laws
    55 million - 65% of Egyptians want Sharia law, over 75% hold positive views of Bin Laden.
    135 million - In Pakistan 76% want Sharia law in all countries
    122 million - over a quarter in Bangladesh suicide bombing is sometimes justified, over 80% want Sharia law in their country, over 2/3 believe honor killing in women is justified
    54 million - 71% in Nigeria want Sharia law
    62 million - Iran 83% favor Sharia law
    24 million - 32% in Turkey believe honor killing of women justified sometimes
    25 million - Morocco 3/4 support Sharia law
    24 million - 78% Iraq believe honor killing of women justified
    24 million - Afghanistan 99% want Sharia law
    500K - 19% of US 2.6 million muslims either favorable or not sure about Al Qaeda.
    etc...

    Yeah, just a tiny minority, like maybe 600+ million.
     
  9. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #9
    What's wrong with sharia law per say?
     
  10. SHNXX macrumors 68000

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    #10
    I'm not sure if that's a serious question, but under Sharia law, homosexuality is a sin and a crime.
    https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Islam_and_Homosexuality

    Punishment for apostasy is death.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostasy_in_Islam

    There are many other offensive things about women, but I've only read the Quran casually as an infidel, so I'll let the imams on MacRumors take over from here.

    Note: I'm not a grammar nazi per se, but it's not spelled "per say."
     
  11. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #11
    There's less in the Koran about homosexuality than in the bible...

    Look you might well find if you ask Muslims whether they think homosexuals should be put to death that lots will support that, but you'd probably have found the same would have applied in Christian countries 30 years ago.

    And actually the laws about homosexuality in many Muslim countries are down to the British empire, and usually only affect men because Queen Victoria refused to believe in lesbians.
     
  12. bandrews macrumors 6502a

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    #12
    Probably nothing.....

    in the 14th century.

    I firmly believe that there's an active, significant minority of muslims carrying out these atrocities and to label all muslims as radical islamists is wrong.

    However, where are the imams, scholars, muslim leaders across the western world condemning these acts on MSM? Intelligence, law enforcement and western political forces will not prevent radicalisation. It needs to come from within.
     
  13. SHNXX macrumors 68000

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    #13
    So your argument is your guesses about how Christians felt before?
    Nobody cares what you think.
    Give me facts to support your ****** argument.

    If you find Pew polls that show Christians think the verses in the Bible should be implemented as law, that'd count as data.
     
  14. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #14
    What in sharia law is incompatible with (say) Victorian values?

    Where are the Christian leaders condemning the Colorado terrorism?

    And by the way Muslims always do condemn these things.
     
  15. FrankieTDouglas macrumors 65816

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    #15
    If there's less, they sure know how to shine a spotlight to elevate it. And 30 years ago? Guess what, right now isn't 30 years ago. Live in the present, there are things happening right now and if you gave as much diligence about comparison arguments from the past as you did to what happens right now, perhaps we wouldn't have bad past events to refer to in another 30 years.
     
  16. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #16
    Most Christians support common law and Roman law. Common law is heavily based on Christianity and Roman law has been heavily influenced by Christianity for the past 1600 years.
     
  17. SHNXX macrumors 68000

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    #17
    More feelings and 0 facts.
    You really have no idea how to support your arguments, do you?

    There is no country in the Western world that punishes homosexuality and apostasy.
     
  18. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #18
    So give them another thirty years...

    Look Muslims do need to do a better job of accepting homosexuality but hate from the right wing Americans isn't going to achieve that.

    And liberals do need to be prepared to criticise Muslims where appropriate, but not all countries are on the gay marriage train yet. Alabama isn't really.
    --- Post Merged, Jun 12, 2016 ---
    Lithuania. And I think it's pretty unpleasant to be gay in Poland or Mississippi. Probably more so than in Kuala Lumpur or Jakarta.

    And look in many Muslim countries homosexuality is punishable by death, a lot of that is down to laws at the time of the British empire.
     
  19. SHNXX macrumors 68000

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    #19
    Again, nobody cares what you think everyone should do.
    If you want to argue that Muslims will change in 30 years, then give us some evidence that suggests this is possible.
    If all you can offer is a bunch of conjecture, stop posting.

    By the way, LYING does not count "per say" (your favorite spelling of per se).
    Homosexuality is legal in Lithuania:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Lithuania
     
  20. bandrews macrumors 6502a

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    #20
    Queen Victoria died over a hundred years ago. Although even then, I don't think you could be executed for being an atheist.

    I'm sure they do - but there's nothing on the homepage of any of the news sites I read - from the Independent to the Telegraph - from a senior muslim to remind people that this guy does not represent every muslim.
     
  21. FrankieTDouglas macrumors 65816

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    #21
    Oh yeah?



    From earlier this year in central Florida, an Islamic scholar seems to disagree with you.
     
  22. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #22
    So you're accepting that modern sharia law is 100 years out of date not 600. Good.

    Why should it be on the homepage?
     
  23. APlotdevice macrumors 68040

    APlotdevice

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    #23
    We Jews like to say we observe the laws of the Old Testament. Some of those laws, however, are just as barbaric as those found in the Quran. Including the one regarding homosexuals.
     
  24. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #24
    There views are similar to Christians in the 1980s.
     
  25. SHNXX macrumors 68000

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    #25
    If you Jews, including orthodox ones, are going around killing 50+ gay people in night clubs, bombing airports, shooting people in theaters all over the world, then I'd say the Jews have a problem.

    But instead of killing gays and raping women in EU countries, Jews just seem quite happy winning Nobel prizes, running hedge funds, and writing movie scripts.
    --- Post Merged, Jun 12, 2016 ---
    Please cite sources for how many Christian terrorists were bombing theaters, hijacking airplanes, honor killing women, throwing gays off the roof, etc.
    This time, without lying.
     

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