The Legacy of George W Bush's Presidency

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Cleverboy, Jul 18, 2008.

  1. Cleverboy macrumors 65816

    Cleverboy

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    #1
    http://www.dems.gov/index.asp?Type=B_PR&S...

    An interesting look at how the last 8 years of George W. Bush has impacted America. The information is provided by the Democratic Caucus, but pulls off of data compiled from Bureau of Economic Analysis, Department of Treasury, Congressional Budget Office, Bureau of Labor Statistics, United States Census Bureau and a number of other governmental and non-governmental institutions.

    I'd be interested in seeing how the SAME criteria worked for Clinton, and how they'll work for our next two term president, John McCain. I believe his life will be emblematic of the nature of our country moving forward. A nation in its twilight years, unmotivated to adapting to the changing global conditions due to pervasive, paralyzing ideology. Ironically, a description that matches Bush as well.

    ~ CB
     
  2. SMM macrumors 65816

    SMM

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    #2
    McCain will not get within a light-year of the Whitehouse. There are not as many politically dumb people as there used to be. Besides, McCain could only keep his 'straight-talker' charade going for so long. The MSM is waking up to the fact, there is no substance to McCain's words. They are asking him tougher questions, then pointing out, he said the opposite (sometimes on the same day) recently. Reporters and interviewers are coming to realize, what others have been saying for the past couple years. McCain will say anything, to anyone, which he believes will enhance his image and further his cause. The problem he is running into, with his advanced age, he forgets which face to wear, or what his position needs to be. No, this is going to be John's last hurrah, I am afraid. There is even some talk, by a few republicans, they may be better off by blowing the cobwebs off Mitt, and giving him the nod at the convention. This seldom happens, but it would not be the first time.
     
  3. GfPQqmcRKUvP macrumors 68040

    GfPQqmcRKUvP

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    #3
    I highly disapprove of using the GDP growth as an indication of how much George Bush's policies have damaged our economy. I believe he's limited our future growth, but everyone knows the the dot com bubble burst in 2000-2002 wasn't Bush's doing.
     
  4. Cleverboy thread starter macrumors 65816

    Cleverboy

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    #4
    Well. I thought "I agree" earlier today when I read your post, but over time, I have some caveats. A President's policies really DO affect the GDP I think.

    Bush would like to present a message that
    he wants to break our "addiction to oil".
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXz6hnQr2gk

    Critics have long said that Bush isn't putting enough money aside for his alternative fuel ideas (a quote from the video link). But that's the nicest thing they say. The worst, is the indictment handed down in the movie "Who Killed the Electric Car".

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/arianna-huffington/who-killed-the-electric-c_b_24348.html
    Back to the GDP, right now... due to current policies, the American car industry wasn't very encouraged to continue the push into alternative fuel vehicles and NOW is much further behind foreign automakers like Toyota (our SUVs and Hummers sitting on backlots taking up space).

    http://www.financialpost.com/related/links/story.html?id=485754
    As presidential candidate Obama said in May 2007 to the Economic Club of Detroit (to an unsympathetic crowd):
    But, its not all a DIRECT factor of administration policy, but I think its all very much related. Presidents can't be completely absolved of responsibility for a bad economy no more than they can fully take credit for a good economy... but it certainly is related.

    ~ CB
     
  5. GfPQqmcRKUvP macrumors 68040

    GfPQqmcRKUvP

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    #5
    Yes, they have some effect, as you've stated. But I don't think the comparison is very valid on those GDP figures because of the tech bubble that Bush inherited. I'm not saying it was Clinton's fault either, but Bush did inherit an economy that was about to be crapped on even before September 11th with regards to the tech industry.

    Bush would like to present a message that
    he wants to break our "addiction to oil".
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXz6hnQr2gk

    This "film" has no credibility. In terms of baseless allegations thrown around and rampant speculation it is on par with Loose Change. They allowed GM to pull the plug? I guarantee you, if they thought the EV1 was a viable solution and that it was the car of the future at that time, they wouldn't have pulled the plug because someone allowed them to. That's not how the profit motive works.

    That's true, but what did you expect with gas prices as they were? Sure, you'd hope for some foresight, and the companies are hurting now because of it. Not only do I not blame Bush on the mistakes made by U.S. companies, but they are getting what they deserved. Bush shouldn't have to mandate that cars get a certain mileage, because the market will correct it. The auto workers union has big part of the blame in the current transportation fiasco, but so do the companies who acquiesced to their eventually suicidal monetary demands.



    EDIT: Quick blog post about Who Killed the Electric Car

    http://blogs.edmunds.com/karl/2006/06/gms-ev1----who-killed-common-sense.html

    There are much more detailed rebuttals on the internet, which you can search for if you'd like, that shows WKTEC as the shoddy film lacking in real information (rather than speculation) that it is.


    EDIT2: I'd love an electric car like the Tesla, so it's not like I hate them.
     
  6. iJohnHenry macrumors P6

    iJohnHenry

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    #6
    I understood that it was in fact California relenting on severe emissions restrictions that allowed GM to kill the EV1. They blinked first.

    Georgie Porgie's greatest legacy might just be that he "lead" America to elect it's first Black President.
     
  7. kavika411 macrumors 6502a

    kavika411

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    #7
    Not a rhetorical question: Is that a compliment to George Bush, or a criticism?

    Disclaimer: I am setting up neither you nor anyone else by asking this question. I am simply interested in what you mean. I was impressed with you concise statement, and simply look forward to your follow up, it you have a moment. No lengthy explanation necessary. Thanks.
     
  8. iJohnHenry macrumors P6

    iJohnHenry

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    #8
    Sorry, but I cannot answer that one.

    If you are a Republican, then it's a criticism.

    If you are a Democrat, then it's a pseudo-compliment.

    If you are a citizen of the World, then you relish the change.
     
  9. MacDawg macrumors P6

    MacDawg

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    #9
    Interesting, you can throw the statement out there to stir the pot but you can't explain what you meant by it?

    He didn't ask what it meant to a republican or democrat
    He simply asked what you meant by it

    Seemed like a fair question, asked with a great deal of humility to me

    Woof, Woof - Dawg [​IMG]
     
  10. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #10
    "Lead" as a metal may sound like it is the past tense of the verb "to lead", but it's not. Could we have "led", please, where appropriate?

    I certainly hope GWB's Presidency has helped to discredit the idea of invading other countries for no good reason for at least a generation.
     
  11. MacDawg macrumors P6

    MacDawg

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    #11
    So, I guess if he does happen to get elected it will just go to show there really are more politically dumb people than you thought there were?

    Or will it indicate that the majority disagree with you and your candidate?
    (I use majority loosely understanding the difference between popular vote and the electoral college)

    Woof, Woof - Dawg [​IMG]
     
  12. iJohnHenry macrumors P6

    iJohnHenry

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    #12
    Well, I thought this just about covered it.

     
  13. MacDawg macrumors P6

    MacDawg

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    #13
    Perhaps, but you explicitly said below that you "cannot answer that one."
    I guess that is what confused me.


    Woof, Woof - Dawg [​IMG]
     
  14. iJohnHenry macrumors P6

    iJohnHenry

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    #14
    Questions are sometimes implied from the posters perspective.

    I must work on that in the future.

    :p
     
  15. Lord Blackadder macrumors G5

    Lord Blackadder

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    #15
    As a person who is making a career out of studying the past, I say it's far too early to pass comprehensive judgment on Bush and his administration. but the final judgment is probably more predictable in his case than most others. One thing I think we can say is that his policies were divisive at home and not well received abroad.

    It has been proven that he was willing to use the full powers of the executive office to protect his allies from the legal consequences of their actions (justified or otherwise). His rational behind the invasion of Iraq has been exposed as a massive intelligence failure coupled with personal incompetence at best, and total abuse of authority at worst. The Bush II years will also be characterized by a Democratic party that was, to quote my namesake, "about as effective as a cat-flap in an elephant house".

    That's just too gloomy. I think you're writing off a lot of Americans of various backgrounds, beliefs and political leanings who, in the coming generation (or coming administration?), just might prove you wrong.
     
  16. MacDawg macrumors P6

    MacDawg

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    #16
    An interesting perspective to say the least, considering the US is in virtually infancy compared to other nations

    Woof, Woof - Dawg [​IMG]
     
  17. iJohnHenry macrumors P6

    iJohnHenry

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    #17
    I think I might be finally clueing into GB's launching of a nuclear war ship. ;)

    Lord protect the Commonwealth.
     
  18. Cleverboy thread starter macrumors 65816

    Cleverboy

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    #18
    Well, considering we're talking about the twilight of its status as a world power, and not simply the twlight of its existence (I live here, we're not dissappearing!) I don't think its all that far from the truth. China, India... the pendulum is a'swinging.

    ~ CB
     
  19. MacDawg macrumors P6

    MacDawg

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    #19
    There is no doubt an ebb and flow involved, but I cannot agree that we are in the twilight of status as a world power.

    China and India are certainly making strides and casting an influence on the world scene... but the U.S. is still clearly the dominate force in the world. It takes a lot longer than the run of a presidency to supplant that... even the run of several presidents.

    Woof, Woof - Dawg [​IMG]
     
  20. GfPQqmcRKUvP macrumors 68040

    GfPQqmcRKUvP

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    #20
    You're painting a far too bleak and unrealistic picture of the United States' current power. Twilight of us as a world power? You do know that China has four times the population that we do, and yet we still have a GDP that is twice theirs in PPP, and quadruple theirs in exchange rate terms. India, again with quadruple our population, has only one quarter of our GDP on a PPP basis.

    This isn't to say that they aren't growing faster than we are (largely due to free market reforms in China), but c'mon, your statement is a tad ridiculous...
     
  21. Lord Blackadder macrumors G5

    Lord Blackadder

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    #21
    Which Lord? there's a whole house full of 'em.
     
  22. iJohnHenry macrumors P6

    iJohnHenry

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  23. SMM macrumors 65816

    SMM

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    #23
    It may indicate either, both, or something quite different. This was clearly intended to be my opinion, and I will stand by it. If I had (have) reservations, I would have added an escape route. I am not doing so. In fact, I do not even think it will be close. So, my neck is on the chopping block. You can feed me crow come November, if I am still around. I have a health issue, which does not guarantee that.
     
  24. BoyBach macrumors 68040

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    #24

    The history pages are littered with Empires that ended spectacularly. In time, the USA will be no different.
     
  25. blackfox macrumors 65816

    blackfox

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    #25
    I had an interesting conversation with a woman over a beer after work tonight. Among many things we talked about exes of ours who had almost no redeeming qualities to us, except to clarify that which we didn't want in future partners. I bring this up, because Bush's legacy seems to be just that - albeit on a National scale.
     

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